Boxing Historical Archive GPT: Johnson's own words

[Dr Z]

All you have is double standards. It's why you berate Lewis for retiring without giving Vits a rematch, but you give Vits a pass for avoiding Rahman and never trying to seek a Byrd rematch. That's not hating, that's the facts.

I do repsect Lewis and rank him #3 of all time HEAVYWEIGHT. Rahman signed with King and quickly faded from the scene. When Vitali came back for poiltcs, Rhaman wasn't even ranked in the top 20. FACTS.

Got it now?

[JAB5239]

I do repsect Lewis and rank him #3 of all time HEAVYWEIGHT. Rahman signed with King and quickly faded from the scene. When Vitali came back for poiltcs, Rhaman wasn't even ranked in the top 20. FACTS.

Got it now?

Doesn't explain why Vits said he couldn't be ready for Rahman, and when Hasim went and signed the Barrett fight instead Vits was immediately trying to make a fight with Maskaev, does it? Rahman was Vits mandatory, Vits wouldn't fight him, tried making other fights and then retired before getting stripped. Did I make anything up?

[Dr Z]

Doesn't explain why Vits said he couldn't be ready for Rahman, and when Hasim went and signed the Barrett fight instead Vits was immediately trying to make a fight with Maskaev, does it? Rahman was Vits mandatory, Vits wouldn't fight him, tried making other fights and then retired before getting stripped. Did I make anything up?

Here are the facts. Take note for once.

Klitschko had won the vacant WBC title in April 2004 by stopping Corrie Sanders in the eighth round and made one successful defense against Danny Williams in December 2004. By 2005, he was the dominant figure in the heavyweight division following Lennox Lewis's retirement earlier that year. The bout with Rahman—who had become the interim WBC champion during Klitschko's inactivity—promised unification and high stakes.However, nine days before the fight (during sparring preparations), Klitschko suffered a severe knee injury: he tore the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) in his right leg. This injury required surgery and an estimated 9–12 months of recovery, potentially ending his career at age 34 due to the physical demands of heavyweight boxing and his history of accumulating injuries (e.g., a shoulder issue in a prior fight against Chris Byrd in 2000 and facial cuts against Lewis in 2003). To prevent the WBC title from being frozen indefinitely, Klitschko voluntarily vacated it and announced his retirement, allowing Rahman to be elevated to full champion status. The WBC expressed gratitude for his decision, naming him "Champion Emeritus" with the right to return as mandatory challenger if he ever unretired.Klitschko later cited multiple factors in interviews and statements for his 2005 retirement:

• Mounting injuries: He had endured a knee tear, which he described as potentially career-ending without full recovery.
• Desire to retire on top: With a record of 35-2 (34 KOs) and only one in-ring loss (a controversial TKO to Lewis due to cuts), he wanted to avoid risking his legacy.
• Political aspirations: Already involved in Ukrainian politics (he had advised President Viktor Yushchenko and run unsuccessfully for mayor of Kyiv in 2006), Klitschko prioritized public service over boxing.

Why No Fight After Retirement?Simply put, Klitschko did not return to boxing until 2008—three years after retiring—and by then, the opportunity to fight Rahman had long passed for several reasons:

1. Rahman's Loss of the Title: Just eight months after Klitschko's retirement, Rahman was knocked out in the 12th round by Oleg Maskaev on August 6, 2006, losing the WBC belt. Rahman fought sporadically afterward (winning some regional bouts but never regaining major title contention) and retired in 2012 with a record of 50-7-2 (41 KOs). By the time Klitschko returned, Rahman was 33, past his prime, and no longer held the title or mandatory status, making a fight commercially and competitively unviable.
2. Klitschko's Hiatus and Return Path: During his three-year retirement (2005–2008), Klitschko focused on politics, including his Kyiv mayoral campaign. When he returned in October 2008, the WBC honored his emeritus status by ordering him as mandatory challenger against the new champion, Samuel Peter. Klitschko defeated Peter by unanimous decision in September 2009 to reclaim the WBC title. His comeback fights targeted current titleholders and contenders (e.g., Juan Carlos Gomez, Tomasz Adamek, and Derrick Chisora), not past opponents like Rahman, who was irrelevant in the division by 2008–2009.
3. No Interest or Logistics for a Rahman Bout: There are no records of negotiations or discussions for a Klitschko-Rahman fight post-2005. Boxing matchmaking prioritizes active champions, rising stars, and high-profile rivalries. Rahman, after losing to Maskaev, was seen as a faded contender (he had upset Lewis in 2001 but was inconsistent). Klitschko's promoter, Tom Loeffler, emphasized in interviews that the 2005 injury directly led to the retirement and break, but the return was about reclaiming dominance, not settling old scores. Additionally, Klitschko's second retirement in December 2013 (at age 42, again for politics as Kyiv's mayor) further closed any window.
4. Rhaman was on a downward trajectory.

In summary, the fight never happened because Klitschko's injury-forced retirement in 2005 canceled it outright, and Rahman's quick title loss plus Klitschko's delayed, politics-focused return made a matchup impossible and unnecessary.


GOT it now, Cowboy. Which fact do you disagree with?

Your move...

[JAB5239]

Here are the facts. Take note for once.

Klitschko had won the vacant WBC title in April 2004 by stopping Corrie Sanders in the eighth round and made one successful defense against Danny Williams in December 2004. By 2005, he was the dominant figure in the heavyweight division following Lennox Lewis's retirement earlier that year. The bout with Rahman—who had become the interim WBC champion during Klitschko's inactivity—promised unification and high stakes.However, nine days before the fight (during sparring preparations), Klitschko suffered a severe knee injury: he tore the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) in his right leg. This injury required surgery and an estimated 9–12 months of recovery, potentially ending his career at age 34 due to the physical demands of heavyweight boxing and his history of accumulating injuries (e.g., a shoulder issue in a prior fight against Chris Byrd in 2000 and facial cuts against Lewis in 2003). To prevent the WBC title from being frozen indefinitely, Klitschko voluntarily vacated it and announced his retirement, allowing Rahman to be elevated to full champion status. The WBC expressed gratitude for his decision, naming him "Champion Emeritus" with the right to return as mandatory challenger if he ever unretired.Klitschko later cited multiple factors in interviews and statements for his 2005 retirement:

• Mounting injuries: He had endured a knee tear, which he described as potentially career-ending without full recovery.
• Desire to retire on top: With a record of 35-2 (34 KOs) and only one in-ring loss (a controversial TKO to Lewis due to cuts), he wanted to avoid risking his legacy.
• Political aspirations: Already involved in Ukrainian politics (he had advised President Viktor Yushchenko and run unsuccessfully for mayor of Kyiv in 2006), Klitschko prioritized public service over boxing.

Why No Fight After Retirement?Simply put, Klitschko did not return to boxing until 2008—three years after retiring—and by then, the opportunity to fight Rahman had long passed for several reasons:

1. Rahman's Loss of the Title: Just eight months after Klitschko's retirement, Rahman was knocked out in the 12th round by Oleg Maskaev on August 6, 2006, losing the WBC belt. Rahman fought sporadically afterward (winning some regional bouts but never regaining major title contention) and retired in 2012 with a record of 50-7-2 (41 KOs). By the time Klitschko returned, Rahman was 33, past his prime, and no longer held the title or mandatory status, making a fight commercially and competitively unviable.
2. Klitschko's Hiatus and Return Path: During his three-year retirement (2005–2008), Klitschko focused on politics, including his Kyiv mayoral campaign. When he returned in October 2008, the WBC honored his emeritus status by ordering him as mandatory challenger against the new champion, Samuel Peter. Klitschko defeated Peter by unanimous decision in September 2009 to reclaim the WBC title. His comeback fights targeted current titleholders and contenders (e.g., Juan Carlos Gomez, Tomasz Adamek, and Derrick Chisora), not past opponents like Rahman, who was irrelevant in the division by 2008–2009.
3. No Interest or Logistics for a Rahman Bout: There are no records of negotiations or discussions for a Klitschko-Rahman fight post-2005. Boxing matchmaking prioritizes active champions, rising stars, and high-profile rivalries. Rahman, after losing to Maskaev, was seen as a faded contender (he had upset Lewis in 2001 but was inconsistent). Klitschko's promoter, Tom Loeffler, emphasized in interviews that the 2005 injury directly led to the retirement and break, but the return was about reclaiming dominance, not settling old scores. Additionally, Klitschko's second retirement in December 2013 (at age 42, again for politics as Kyiv's mayor) further closed any window.
4. Rhaman was on a downward trajectory.

In summary, the fight never happened because Klitschko's injury-forced retirement in 2005 canceled it outright, and Rahman's quick title loss plus Klitschko's delayed, politics-focused return made a matchup impossible and unnecessary.


GOT it now, Cowboy. Which fact do you disagree with?

Your move...

You keep avoiding the question. If Vits was injured and required so much time to heal than why was he trying to make fights with Maskaev as soon as Rahman signed to fight Barrett? Your nuthugging excuses keep ignoring this.

Chronological List of Vitali Klitschko’s ‘Ducks’ https://share.google/I3FCqRm3pOvzy8yxO

[them_apples]

with chat gpt, it's important to remember it's just an LLM (large language model) meaning it understands human language very well and all it's nuances. It doesn't have access to enormous amounts of data on every subject. This is why it can be wrong, just like humans are often wrong.

The chat GPT I have made, simply has access to a large catalog of books to source, so it really works best if you ask it for sources - this it will do. It will also show the sources OF sources, and many of them all came from the same person. It sort of pokes holes even in books. In Johnson's case, a lot of the info comes from Johnson himself.

It does seem there was no "deal" with Ketchel, rather Johnson, trying to make money and being on film was a new novelty - he wanted to make sure to make sure it was exciting for the people watching it. He found a shot Ketchel deemed to load up on, went down on purpose, then rose up and knocked him cold. Possibly setting up a rematch against an over matched opponent.

EDIT: no more artifacts in the posts! outstanding

The one thing it seems, history is extremely vague and inaccurate. We pretty much just decide what we want to believe.

[them_apples]

Johnson was a known liar who wanted to be the only black heavyweight champion. The man called all colored women two timers, and was a known wife beater.

IMO, the story of a fix was to save face and explain almost being ko'd by another super middle. Kethcel died very young, and Johnson's lie came out only after that. Dead men tell no tales. He also made up a similar story with Willard.


If you buy his words, what fights were fixed for him to win? Well ??? ....


I still say he did not face the most formidable men while being a big champion.


Langford who he pulled out of a signed contract to fight, Jeannette who beat and drew with him in the past, and McVey. Johnson had multiple offers to meet them in different nations and USA states. They all were season heavyweight when Jack become champion and would have been highly ring ranked for 1909-1914! But as far as I know, there were no such rankings.


And he did not face the best white white contenders, Well he did face a very green in Gunboat Smtih who TKO'd him in an exhibition match as champion in 1909. What about distance fight with him later? Nor did he face the best white hope in McCarty.

That is five men, any of whom would have enhanced his reputation as champion. Johnson had the weakest title run of any famous heavyweight champion who defended his title more than three times.

the shot didn't even land. it's on film. This part I am certain of.

[Bronson66]

the shot didn't even land. it's on film. This part I am certain of.

Johnson said Ketchel double crossed him 2 days after their fight. "He double crossed me ,I handed him what he deserved".That right hand near miss must have convinced him it was time to get serious.
GunBoat Smith, Johnson's sparring partner for the Ketchel fight said, in a taped interview the KD of Johnson was staged.

No offers for Johnson to defend against Jeannette,McVey or Langford.which met his asking price for a defence.$30,000 were refused.
The hater has been making these allegations for over a decade,however when you ask him to produce CONCRETE OFFERS OF $,30,000 that Johnson refused you will be met by silence.

Ask him which promoters, in which country were willing to meet Johnson's price,apart from those he accepted, which were the McMahon Bros$30,000 to defend against Jeannette in NY , and H D McIntosh in Sydney to defend against both McVey and Langford ,for $45,000 plus$5000 training expenses plus 4 round tickets ,plus a percentage of the fight and you will be met with silence.or irrelevant BS about Johnson's character that he was a Freemason .

If you quote the recognized authority on Johnson, Adam Pollack using his diligently researched material he will say,Pollack is a ******* and a fan boy of Johnson's.
How he would know this, because he has never read any of the three books on Johnson that Adam has published, is beyond any logical understanding,but we are referring to a hating moron!

[Dr Z]

You keep avoiding the question. If Vits was injured and required so much time to heal than why was he trying to make fights with Maskaev as soon as Rahman signed to fight Barrett? Your nuthugging excuses keep ignoring this.

Chronological List of Vitali Klitschko’s ‘Ducks’ https://share.google/I3FCqRm3pOvzy8yxO

You are a hater that says prove everything while doing zero work yourself.


Maybe you just don't know the facts.


Here are the ring ratings after Vitali returned to boxing . Peter and Maskeav fought, with the winner (Peter ) moving up to #2 and facing Vitali.

As selected by The Ring magazine in the March 2009 issue.

Manny Pacquiao Juan Manuel Marquez Joe Calzaghe Bernard Hopkins Israel Vazquez Antonio Margarito Rafael Marquez Miguel Angel Cotto Ivan Calderon Ricky Hatton	Title Vacant Wladimir Klitschko Vitali Klitschko Ruslan Chagaev Alexander Povetkin Nikolay Valuev Sultan Ibragimov Samuel Peter Oleg Maskaev Juan Carlos Gomez Alexander Dimitrenko

Now take note, Rhaman was on the slide and NOT RANKED. He was not ranked in 2006, 2007 or 2008 either.

Vitali first fight back was for the title with the #2 contender in the world.


Now be a man and admit you are wrong. Vitali did not duck Rahman.

[JAB5239]

You are a hater that says prove everything while doing zero work yourself.


Maybe you just don't know the facts.


Here are the ring ratings after Vitali returned to boxing . Peter and Maskeav fought, with the winner (Peter ) moving up to #2 and facing Vitali.

As selected by The Ring magazine in the March 2009 issue.

Manny Pacquiao Juan Manuel Marquez Joe Calzaghe Bernard Hopkins Israel Vazquez Antonio Margarito Rafael Marquez Miguel Angel Cotto Ivan Calderon Ricky Hatton	Title Vacant Wladimir Klitschko Vitali Klitschko Ruslan Chagaev Alexander Povetkin Nikolay Valuev Sultan Ibragimov Samuel Peter Oleg Maskaev Juan Carlos Gomez Alexander Dimitrenko

Now take note, Rhaman was on the slide and NOT RANKED. He was not ranked in 2006, 2007 or 2008 either.

Vitali first fight back was for the title with the #2 contender in the world.


Now be a man and admit you are wrong. Vitali did not duck Rahman.

Again you keep ducking the question. If Vit was hurt (before he retired to avoid Rahman) than why did he seek a fight with Maskaev after Rahman signed to fight Barrett?are you slow? Once Rahman signed another fight Vits miraculously recovered!!! I don't care what happened when he came back, just answer the question!! Did the hand of God magically heal him? Was it steroids? What? The man wouldn't fight Rahman but wanted to make a Maskaev fight but HBO rejected it.