What if Gene Tunnney was un-defeated in 60+ fights?

[billeau2]

Sullivan did not face or beat anyone with good. At least no one good above 170lbs.



His best three golved me men faced? IMO they were:



Corbett and he won Jim won oh 20 or 21 rounds before knocking the 32 year old Sullivan out.




Cardiff lasted the distance and according to a primary at the fight report should have declared the winner vs. a prime 28 year old Sullivan!







Burke. He was small 5'6 1/2 inches tall and really just a middleweight. Yet he lasted the distance.


These are Sullivan's best three gloved opponents and really should be one win and two losses here.

- Dr Z


PS: I pay for their work? Um, that would be no.

How much do you weigh? You claim to be a big guy yes? I had the misfortune of having an accident that rendered me, after I rehabbed myself, at around 280... with some fat but also a lot of muscle... Which leads me to my point: "Can you imagine fighting for hours? at an advanced weight? Remember now, you may have power, but with an ungloved hand you cannot risk power the same way, and a smaller opponent can make you have to move, grapple, etc...

Are you beginning to understand WHY fighters were not 250 pounds and above? Not generally... The preclassical style of fighting was murder if you were out of shape... Just ask Sullivan's ghost! And just look at your own experience if you are a big guy. I know that for me? My best fighting weight at which I fought heavyweight division in martial arts stuff was 180 pounds... I still practice regularly and continue to lose weight from the accident that caused me to gain it, but at 60 years old (not that old) and even at 250, my weight would prohibit me from going any real distance in a combatives environment. Think about it...

Fighters today gas as heavyweights after 5 rounds at times... How would they manage against a 180 pound heavyweight, using bare knuckle, or small gloves? I can pretty much tell you they would either break their hand, or exhaust... There is a reason heavyweights fought at lower weights... It has nothing to do with superior training. Dempsey became the first heavyweight to demonstrate a more puncher friendly style, which bigger gloves helped change the dynamics of punching.

Sullivan was a beast... His rule set? He would be murder for any big heavyweight intent on trying to end the fight with a broken han... I mean a big punch. Guys back then? If they saw you try? would let you hit them in the forehead...Try that sometime with an open hand fist...

[Bronson66]

i type special just for you to have something to use back. Have you not figured that out yet my myopic old man?cant pressure from various quarters, including political figures like [/color][/i][/size][/font][/color]kemi badenoch and elon musk, for a national inquiry into the **** gangs scandal. This involves organized groups primarily of pakistani descent, but there's an acknowledgment that such crimes cross ethnic boundaries. The demand for inquiry stems from historical cases in towns like rotherham, telford, and oldham where thousands of children were ***ually exploited over decades with little initial action from authorities due to fears of racial tensions or political correctness.

elderly abuse is one of my concerns!

be safe!

- dr z

edited

[Bronson66]

sullivan did not face or beat anyone with good. At least no one good above 170lbs.



His best three golved me men faced? Imo they were:



Corbett and he won jim won oh 20 or 21 rounds before knocking the 32 year old sullivan out.




Cardiff lasted the distance and according to a primary at the fight report should have declared the winner vs. A prime 28 year old sullivan!







Burke. He was small 5'6 1/2 inches tall and really just a middleweight. Yet he lasted the distance.


These are sullivan's best three gloved opponents and really should be one win and two losses here.

- dr z


ps: I pay for their work? Um, that would be no.

edited

[Dr Z]

Would the fact that Sullivan broke his left arm in the Cardiff fight ,have something to do with Cardiff earning a draw?

Might the fact that Sullivan lost according to the press but it was called a draw the ref be raw deal to Cardiff?

YEP.

Keep yer cane hand high I tell you.

[Bronson66]

might the fact that sullivan lost according to the press but it was called a draw the ref be raw deal to cardiff?

yep.

Keep yer cane hand high i tell you.

edited

[Dr Z]

How much do you weigh? You claim to be a big guy yes? I had the misfortune of having an accident that rendered me, after I rehabbed myself, at around 280... with some fat but also a lot of muscle... Which leads me to my point: "Can you imagine fighting for hours? at an advanced weight? Remember now, you may have power, but with an ungloved hand you cannot risk power the same way, and a smaller opponent can make you have to move, grapple, etc...

Are you beginning to understand WHY fighters were not 250 pounds and above? Not generally... The preclassical style of fighting was murder if you were out of shape... Just ask Sullivan's ghost! And just look at your own experience if you are a big guy. I know that for me? My best fighting weight at which I fought heavyweight division in martial arts stuff was 180 pounds... I still practice regularly and continue to lose weight from the accident that caused me to gain it, but at 60 years old (not that old) and even at 250, my weight would prohibit me from going any real distance in a combatives environment. Think about it...

Fighters today gas as heavyweights after 5 rounds at times... How would they manage against a 180 pound heavyweight, using bare knuckle, or small gloves? I can pretty much tell you they would either break their hand, or exhaust... There is a reason heavyweights fought at lower weights... It has nothing to do with superior training. Dempsey became the first heavyweight to demonstrate a more puncher friendly style, which bigger gloves helped change the dynamics of punching.

Sullivan was a beast... His rule set? He would be murder for any big heavyweight intent on trying to end the fight with a broken han... I mean a big punch. Guys back then? If they saw you try? would let you hit them in the forehead...Try that sometime with an open hand fist...

In shape and at fighting weight about 220 lbs. Now about 230 lbs! I gained some over the years. So my wife says. But I say the same in reverse! Yes, I am/was a fairly big guy in the 1990s at 6'2' with a 77" reach. Nowadays I would be light,short,and lack reach for a heavyweight. Approaching the big 5 OH!

At any rate 175 and below is not a heavyweight; most of the men Sullivan fought were below 180 and not very good. If you gas easily you're meat in boxing. This was true 150 years ago, and is still true today. But there is such a thing as your best fighting weight for boxing. And most of the old timers are too small to be modern heavyweights.

[billeau2]

In shape and at fighting weight about 220 lbs. Now about 230 lbs! I gained some over the years. So my wife says. But I say the same in reverse! Yes, I am/was a fairly big guy in the 1990s at 6'2' with a 77" reach. Nowadays I would be light,short,and lack reach for a heavyweight. Approaching the big 5 OH!

At any rate 175 and below is not a heavyweight; most of the men Sullivan fought were below 180 and not very good. If you gas easily you're meat in boxing. This was true 150 years ago, and is still true today. But there is such a thing as your best fighting weight for boxing. And most of the old timers are too small to be modern heavyweights.

Your missing the point here Z... You have no idea of how good Sullivan was. Your missing the distinction in styles, how the difference affects preparation, etc. Did you read the post at all?

[Anomalocaris]

Mailer IMO was a great writer. Never personally cared for Hemingway... Kidergarten sentences, machismo overboard... no real man who understands violence, suffering and the price one pays as a man would advocate bullfighting.

Cultural relativism be damned ... I do not have to have a positive thing to say about Spain and Mexico regarding this horrid tradition...But from the culture I come from? I was raised by a Je wish dad who lied about his age so he could fight in the Marines (he was 16), proved his worth to his brothers, many of whom were fighting the Japanese because of German family, or sympathy, watched his best friend from the Bronx get his head peeled from a sniper, and at about 135 boxed, by his own admission he was not very good, and did many incredible things...Things like risk his life to help a he man Marine overcome a fear of heights, my dad literally walked him down holding him up... He was a radioman, one of the first the japanese wanted to eliminate... My dad never was machismo in any way, no one would have known his background unless one looked at his face, permanently scared from Malaria from the jungle.

I raised my boys in a similar fashion, fought my own battles growing up a minority in a real hood... And I say all this to say: "Imagine what I see when I see men who measure their pluck bullfighting?" Pathetic to me lol and I just tend to associate Hemingway with this lost generation... sitting on bar stools and looking for a way to prove oneself...

Lol anomalocaris none of this is directed to you lol! Please pardon my rant.

Anyone who condones or commits cruelty to animals is a lowlife.

Whenever I hear a matador has been killed I cheer (especially when you read what they do to the bull beforehand, the odds are stacked 99% in favour of the poncing dandies).

The greatest obscentires in the modern world, bear-bile farming, shark and ray-finning, animal bloodsports, crush videos etc (the list is endless) make me incandecent with rage.

The natural world is one of my many interests and every animal is beautiful in it's own way (for example I think spiders are as cute as hell - especially the genius jumping/dancing spiders like Portia).

When Attenborough (almost 99 now) passes I will be gutted.

It's why I could not give a flying f*** about McClellan, the sick c***.

My rant over!

[billeau2]

Anyone who condones or commits cruelty to animals is a lowlife.

Whenever I hear a matador has been killed I cheer (especially when you read what they do to the bull beforehand, the odds are stacked 99% in favour of the poncing dandies).

The greatest obscentires in the modern world, bear-bile farming, shark and ray-finning, animal bloodsports, crush videos etc (the list is endless) make me incandecent with rage.

The natural world is one of my many interests and every animal is beautiful in it's own way (for example I think spiders are as cute as hell - especially the genius jumping/dancing spiders like Portia).

When Attenborough (almost 99 now) passes I will be gutted.

It's why I could not give a flying f*** about McClellan, the sick c***.

My rant over!

Amen!

People can find incredible perspective when interacting with all the wonderful manifestations of life that the Most High has shown us as a way to love him, others and ourselves. My two dogs keep me fit and alive... The older I get the more apparent the consciousness that animals manifest! I grew up in the middle of New York City, I never understood horses... While the family was in Nevada, we went to a friends house who kept some horses in a shelter. As I am getting out of the car after the family had left I turn to see this gigantic head poking my shoulder in the car. This most beautiful horse was nudging, introducing himself to me. I should have been scared, but I instantly knew his intentions and it felt so nice to connect to him! We have had lizards that turned out to be beautiful, thoughtful creatures... It blows my mind.

I believe the matadores are misled... it is tragic. I certainly cannot feel sorry for them when they are injured, gored, or even killed...

[billeau2]

Would the fact that Sullivan broke his left arm in the Cardiff fight ,have something to do with Cardiff earning a draw?

Breaking an arm and other such problems were regular enough that a fighter, disadvantaged as he was, was expected to fight on. Imagine how Andy Ruiz might train for a fight knowing it would last indefinitely for all practical purposes, and that breaking a bone was no reason to throw in the towel? The fact that Sullivan fought on should clue Z in lol.