My Opinion on Sonny Liston

[BKM-]

Liston remains an enigma.

The films show he can box well, has great range and great power. He will blow away the decent 210-190 Lbs opponents. And he had very good 12 round stamina. I am sold here..


BUT

He can't bottom fight, had a shaky heart, and a so-so chin vs. punchers. Sold Again

His resume of wins is a bit thin, and void of good punchers with a chin. Sold Again.

A dirty fighter... Sold again.


Speed is so so.


These are the questions on Sonny Liston.


What if Dundee allowed Ali's request to quit?

If not for Ali, he has smooth sailing until 1968 and a better legacy.

Dundee should have cut Ali's gloves to give him some more time to recover his blinded eyes then.

Haha. I mean Dundee was a really nasty man himself. Not a lot of sweethearts in this sport especially back then.

[BKM-]

A good point.

Fpr example as soon as a past it Fury lost a couple of close fights with the superb Usyk he is now suddenly regarded as a fat, lazy unskilled bum who was never world class by many.

I try to be objective even if I don't like the fighter as a person (and let's face it there are not many ATG's who were truly nice people).

Sports fans and boxing fans in particular are very fickle.

Well it depends. He probably has more fanboys than any other boxer but they are younger generations, most know him from his podcast and their boxing knowledge consists mostly of Tyson KO Highlights which I have to admit, are probably the most dynamic and amazing to watch in boxing to this day. So they are mostly on Youtube, Tiktok, twitter etc.

But they are younger people who don't tend to go to older social media like message boards like this one, and probably don't have the IQ level needed to have a good discussion here.

But man are they worse than ever. He's like a God to them, no fighter ever lived could have stood up to him even from other combat sports like MMA and kickboxing, and every word out of his mouth is considered Machiavelli-level wisdom.

[Anomalocaris]

Well it depends. He probably has more fanboys than any other boxer but they are younger generations, most know him from his podcast and their boxing knowledge consists mostly of Tyson KO Highlights which I have to admit, are probably the most dynamic and amazing to watch in boxing to this day. So they are mostly on Youtube, Tiktok, twitter etc.

But they are younger people who don't tend to go to older social media like message boards like this one, and probably don't have the IQ level needed to have a good discussion here.

But man are they worse than ever. He's like a God to them, no fighter ever lived could have stood up to him even from other combat sports like MMA and kickboxing, and every word out of his mouth is considered Machiavelli-level wisdom.

Mike Tyson is not the font of all wisdom, although he could start a religion the way his fanboys view him.

[Willie Pep 229]

People think Mike Tyson is wise?

Is that what you two just said?

Who on God's green acre thinks that?

It is really odd to hear you say that. I just can't imagine why anyone would think that.

At first I thought you were just screwing around.

I guess that actually explains much about the popularity of both political pundits and social podcasters.

There are people who think Joe Rogan is smart. He's not, but he can sling the sh it and fake it, so I get it.

But Tyson! We're talking about the guy who bit the other guy's ear. Right! That Mike Tyson?

Come on!

[Anomalocaris]

People think Mike Tyson is wise?

Is that what you two just said?

Who on God's green acre thinks that?

It is really odd to hear you say that. I just can't imagine why anyone would think that.

At first I thought you were just screwing around.

I guess that actually explains much about the popularity of both political pundits and social podcasters.

There are people who think Joe Rogan is smart. He's not, but he can sling the sh it and fake it, so I get it.

But Tyson! We're talking about the guy who bit the other guy's ear. Right! That Mike Tyson?

Come on!

Have you ever read the comments on some of his opinionated videos on Youtube?

You would think he is the second coming of Marcus Aurelius.

[Willie Pep 229]

Have you ever read the comments on some of his opinionated videos on Youtube?

You would think he is the second coming of Marcus Aurelius.

No, but now I will make a point of it.

[BKM-]

People think Mike Tyson is wise?

Is that what you two just said?

Who on God's green acre thinks that?

It is really odd to hear you say that. I just can't imagine why anyone would think that.

At first I thought you were just screwing around.

I guess that actually explains much about the popularity of both political pundits and social podcasters.

There are people who think Joe Rogan is smart. He's not, but he can sling the sh it and fake it, so I get it.

But Tyson! We're talking about the guy who bit the other guy's ear. Right! That Mike Tyson?

Come on!

Absolutely. However, all of his wisdom is taken from intellectuals, poets, even other boxers(people credit him with Jack Dempsey's iconic line about having a plan untill getting punched) etc. he read from books, so I will give him credit for reading a lot and trying to retain that information. But he usually botches the quote and doesn't use it properly in the right context.

Those are just TikTok bits though. When you watch him in an interview or just talk to people you realize how ignorant he still is.

[Anomalocaris]

Absolutely. However, all of his wisdom is taken from intellectuals, poets, even other boxers(people credit him with Jack Dempsey's iconic line about having a plan untill getting punched) etc. he read from books, so I will give him credit for reading a lot and trying to retain that information. But he usually botches the quote and doesn't use it properly in the right context.

Those are just TikTok bits though. When you watch him in an interview or just talk to people you realize how ignorant he still is.

I could not have put it better myself.

Genuinely intelligent champions like Lennox, Vlad and Vitali keep their opinions to themselves.

Then again they always had class, dignity and grace.

Tyson will always be just an aging street thug with pretentions of grandeur.

[billeau2]

People think Mike Tyson is wise?

Is that what you two just said?

Who on God's green acre thinks that?

It is really odd to hear you say that. I just can't imagine why anyone would think that.

At first I thought you were just screwing around.

I guess that actually explains much about the popularity of both political pundits and social podcasters.

There are people who think Joe Rogan is smart. He's not, but he can sling the sh it and fake it, so I get it.

But Tyson! We're talking about the guy who bit the other guy's ear. Right! That Mike Tyson?

Come on!

Distinguishing Wisdom from Knowledge is important here! Under no realistic scenario could one consider Tyson "wise." However he is smart and very well studied about boxing history and technique... However he is not well spoken so a lot of this gets lost in translation. For example, Bert Sugar can speak intelligently about the sport, but Tyson can watch a film of Dempsey and describe how he is pivoting to throw a hard right...