My Opinion on Sonny Liston

[Anomalocaris]

I never bought into the notion he was a bully, in or out of the ring. He was a flawed man and often on the wrong side of the law, but considering his background and the times in which he lived I think his reputation was exaggerated by the press who never accepted him. Writers like Larry Merchant were very unkind to Liston. Back then, fans only had sportswriters to inform them of a fighter's prowess, skills and image. Liston lacked charisma and charm. America in the 1960s was not ready for a champion who happened to be an ex-con.

I've read all the biographies on Liston, watched the documentaries, read old ****zine articles. Watched him on film. I feel was was largely underrated and I've always believed his fights with Ali were fixed, especially the rematch.

I totally agree.

Amongst casuals and the general public he is the forgotten all-time great who only know him from that ****ing awful poster.

His treatment by the police, the US press and society in general was disgusting.

Look at the difference about how a certain cannibal r*pist was lionised 30 years later (and still is).

If you have not seen it on Youtube watch the Rainy Days Boxing documentary on Sonny, balanced, eloquent and absolutely superb.

He was wonderful with children, the vulnerable and old people because as someone says they did not mean him any harm.

A flawed human being but far from a total monster.

Just 'A Man'.

[Mr Mitts]

I totally agree.

Amongst casuals and the general public he is the forgotten all-time great who only know him from that ****ing awful poster.

His treatment by the police, the US press and society in general was disgusting.

Look at the difference about how a certain cannibal r*pist was lionised 30 years later (and still is).

If you have not seen it on Youtube watch the Rainy Days Boxing documentary on Sonny, balanced, eloquent and absolutely superb.

He was wonderful with children, the vulnerable and old people because as someone says they did not mean him any harm.

A flawed human being but far from a total monster.

Just 'A Man'.

Hitler was wonderful with children too. Was he a bully? Very poor evidence.

Myself, I have never used the word monster to describe Sonny. I did use the word bully. I would always retract that if I thought I should. What I think of him personally (which is ambiguous even to me) has no influence at all on my rating of him on an AT scale.

[Willie Pep 229]

It will be pretty hard to convince anyone that you don't hold a single opinion on Liston. By your given criterion you couldn't have an opinion on 9anyone before Liston either. Does that mean George Washington too[/B]?

Why would it be difficult for me to convince anyone that 'I don't hold a single opinion on Liston? I don't understand that line.

If I said I have no opinion on Braddock or Sharkey would that be believable?

By my historical criteria, I pass no final judgement, on anyone, including George Washinghton.

I also don't have an opinion on the fighters I've seen, except to divide them between who I want to watch fight, e.g. Duran, and who I don't, e.g. Whittaker.

I seldom to never judge their worth as fighters. I Don't care too much for lists.

History is not a math. There are no absolutes.

Just 'lies agreed upon.'

One should always approach expressing their opinion, with humbleness and restraint.

[BKM-]

I believe the first Clay fight was legit. The second one, I believe the punch hurt him and buckled him, the replay shows the force of the shot. What makes it look like a dive is when Liston gets on all fours and then falls back down again on his back with his limbs spread. That looked like a bad acting job.

Probably a fix but it doesn't matter in my eyes. Liston was not going to beat Ali.

He was wonderful with children, the vulnerable and old people because as someone says they did not mean him any harm.

They say that's a sociopathic trait. Loving only the vulnerable including animals, because they are easy to control.

[BKM-]

Look at the difference about how a certain cannibal r*pist was lionised 30 years later (and still is).

Good point. Tyson was and is much worse. From possibly murdering elderly people(knocking them unconcious on the street to rob them) to raping multiple women, to beating people outside the ring to biting flesh and attempting to break arms for losing fights, to humiliating himself and the sport once again last year.

Liston is a saint in comparison.

[Anomalocaris]

Good point. Tyson was and is much worse. From possibly murdering elderly people(knocking them unconcious on the street to rob them) to raping multiple women, to beating people outside the ring to biting flesh and attempting to break arms for losing fights, to humiliating himself and the sport once again last year.

Liston is a saint in comparison.

If you look on Youtube at Tyson fanboys and casuals they are insane, they seriously think he is not only the greatest heavyweight but the greatest PFP period.

Compared to many Sonny was a saint

LaMotta for example (the film was a sanitised version of what a real truly evil scumbag he was) or serial cheat and wife beater Robinson (his son said he caused his poor wife's five miscarriages from the savage violence) or murderer Monzon.

I could go on and on but so many seem to give such champions a free pass just because they were better than 99.9% of us at punching people in the face.

Oh and Ring M*gazine has just given Don King a lifetime achievement award.

It beggars belief.

[QueensburyRules]

Ali wasnt the slightest bit frightened he put on an act that sent his pulse rate through the roof,an hour after, his resting pulse was perfectly normal.
How can one be so spectacularly, and unerringly wrong so many times?

- - Ali was askeered as U still are. Liston sent him squallin' fer Angie and his mommy in a Vegas confrontation.

Sharp pros don't jepordize their fight status and purse needed to pay for their training camps in the medical checkup. Fact is that Angie did some fast talkin' to the ref and secured a private room to talk Ali down. May have even slipped him a sedative.

Of course Ali weren't ever smart and ended up broke by his end until much later when an advertising firm secured the permanent rights to market his name and image...

[Dr Z]

Liston remains an enigma.

The films show he can box well, has great range and great power. He will blow away the decent 210-190 Lbs opponents. And he had very good 12 round stamina. I am sold here..


BUT

He can't bottom fight, had a shaky heart, and a so-so chin vs. punchers. Sold Again

His resume of wins is a bit thin, and void of good punchers with a chin. Sold Again.

A dirty fighter... Sold again.


Speed is so so.


These are the questions on Sonny Liston.


What if Dundee allowed Ali's request to quit?

If not for Ali, he has smooth sailing until 1968 and a better legacy.

[Biledriver]

If you look on Youtube at Tyson fanboys and casuals they are insane, they seriously think he is not only the greatest heavyweight but the greatest PFP period.

Compared to many Sonny was a saint

LaMotta for example (the film was a sanitised version of what a real truly evil scumbag he was) or serial cheat and wife beater Robinson (his son said he caused his poor wife's five miscarriages from the savage violence) or murderer Monzon.

I could go on and on but so many seem to give such champions a free pass just because they were better than 99.9% of us at punching people in the face.

Oh and Ring M*gazine has just given Don King a lifetime achievement award.

It beggars belief.

The pendulum has swung the other way now. I seldom run into Tyson nuthuggers anymore, but instead frequently see him getting criminally underrated now. I attribute Tyson current underrating as a reaction to the insane overrating he got from his cultic stan-bois. Funny how things work out sometimes.....

[Anomalocaris]

The pendulum has swung the other way now. I seldom run into Tyson nuthuggers anymore, but instead frequently see him getting criminally underrated now. I attribute Tyson current underrating as a reaction to the insane overrating he got from his cultic stan-bois. Funny how things work out sometimes.....

A good point.

For example as soon as a past it Fury lost a couple of close fights with the superb Usyk he is now suddenly regarded as a fat, lazy unskilled bum who was never world class by many.

I try to be objective even if I don't like the fighter as a person (and let's face it there are not many ATG's who were truly nice people).

Sports fans and boxing fans in particular are very fickle.