Dempsey V Marciano's Challengers?

[JAB5239]

- - Wills was selected multi X as I have proven multiple X, but clearly the governing States and Cities would not allow another Coast to Coast Rioting as happened with Johnson/Jeffries.

Can't make a Big $$$ title fight when no big venues and no big politicians forbid it.

Nobody but a few Greb supporters wanted to see 170 lb Greb who had been whooped by Tunney multi x go against Dempsey.

Grab a clue...

Greb had been calling for Dempsey for several years and had whooped everyone he fought instead. Until someone shows me otherwise I cannot see how there would be no demand for this fight, especially after Greb thrashed him in sparring and word got out.

March 21, 1922
Dempsey Will Give Greb Chance to Win Heavyweight Crown
Newspaper Article Info Newspaper Name: The Oklahoman Date Printed: March 21, 1922 Page 10
Up to Public
Chicago, March 20,-Jack Dempsey will fight Harry Greb if there is any demand for the match, he said here today when he stopped off between trains on his way to Los Angeles.
"It is possible that I might get a match with Harry Greb," he said, "and if I do and there is a call or a demand for it, I surely will take it."

[Willie Pep 229]

Greb had been calling for Dempsey for several years and had whooped everyone he fought instead. Until someone shows me otherwise I cannot see how there would be no demand for this fight, especially after Greb thrashed him in sparring and word got out.

March 21, 1922
Dempsey Will Give Greb Chance to Win Heavyweight Crown
Newspaper Article Info Newspaper Name: The Oklahoman Date Printed: March 21, 1922 Page 10
Up to Public
Chicago, March 20,-Jack Dempsey will fight Harry Greb if there is any demand for the match, he said here today when he stopped off between trains on his way to Los Angeles.
"It is possible that I might get a match with Harry Greb," he said, "and if I do and there is a call or a demand for it, I surely will take it."

I already showed you. The best offer Kearns got was in 1922. A Pittsburgh promoter promised 100K plus a percentage.

Kearns had egg on his face after taking the short end from Rickard in the Carpentier fight and had it in his head that he would take nothing less than a 300K gurantee plus a percentage.

The Pittsburgh guy said in the NY Times he couldn't meet the demand.

Kearns eventually went with Shelby and a 300K guarantee plus a percentage.

Shelby couldn't come up with the last 100K and Kearns tried to walk away just one week from the fight. Dempsey refused and fought despite Kearns. They took away only 220K to 280K depending whose numbers you believe.

The money WAS NOT there. You can't expect us to prove a negative. There were no offers but one and it wasn't even close.

You refuse to believe the money wasn't there. Then there should have been offers.

[JAB5239]

Dempsey made 100k for Brennan, 67k for Miske. Greb beat Brennan 4 times in 1919 and Dempsey fought and beat Brennan at the end of 1920. Grebs best year was 1919 going 45-0. Also a bit ironic Greb roughed Dempsey up in sparring of September of 2020, only months before Dempsey fought Brennan who Greb beat 4 times yhe year before. Was there no demand for the fight but the public would rather see the Brennan fight who Harry had already proven his mastery over? Sorry, I don't buy that. Drmpseys team talked about meeting Greb in November of 1920 but never made the fight. Hard to believe the public would want the Brennan fight more.

[Biledriver]

It frustrates me that it's so easy for people to see the Dempsey in Marciano and Dempsey and Marciano in Tyson

I've always said Tyson looked like Dempsey in the ring. I have no doubt that Cus had Mike studying Jack and adopting what he saw.

[Willie Pep 229]

Dempsey made 100k for Brennan, 67k for Miske. Greb beat Brennan 4 times in 1919 and Dempsey fought and beat Brennan at the end of 1920. Grebs best year was 1919 going 45-0. Also a bit ironic Greb roughed Dempsey up in sparring of September of 2020, only months before Dempsey fought Brennan who Greb beat 4 times yhe year before. Was there no demand for the fight but the public would rather see the Brennan fight who Harry had already proven his mastery over? Sorry, I don't buy that. Drmpseys team talked about meeting Greb in November of 1920 but never made the fight. Hard to believe the public would want the Brennan fight more.

Yes Dempsey made 105K for Brennan. Tex Rickard cited as the only fight he ever lost money on.

Rickard then made the Carpentier fight in summer 1921, creating a 1.6 million dollar gate and paid Dempsey 300K.

So when do you see Rickard or Kearns being interested in Greb when the best offer ever made was a mere 100K?

1920 was Miske and then Brennan.

1921 was Carpentier and a million dollar plus gate. Kearns then demanded 300K.

In 1922 someone in Pittsburgh offered a mere 100K for Greb.

Was Kearns to walk away from Shelby and 300K for 100K for Greb, because of legacy?

Come on,

. . . the absence of any other offers,

. . . a disinterested Rickard,

. . . and a Pittsburgh promoter who couldn't find any more backing than 100K

. . . all strongly suggest that the 'fan demand' you claim is legendary not reality.

P.S. Yes you're right about Brennan not being a viable rematch. Kearns did in fact try to make it in Michigan and couldn't find his 300K guarantee there either, so he walked away from that fight as well.

Money for the Greb fight never surfaced. No one ever made the offer Kearns said he wanted, 300K.

[JAB5239]

Yes Dempsey made 105K for Brennan. Tex Rickard cited as the only fight he ever lost money on.

Rickard then made the Carpentier fight in summer 1921, creating a 1.6 million dollar gate and paid Dempsey 300K.

So when do you see Rickard or Kearns being interested in Greb when the best offer ever made was a mere 100K?

1920 was Miske and then Brennan.

1921 was Carpentier and a million dollar plus gate. Kearns then demanded 300K.

In 1922 someone in Pittsburgh offered a mere 100K for Greb.

Was Kearns to walk away from Shelby and 300K for 100K for Greb, because of legacy?

Come on,

. . . the absence of any other offers,

. . . a disinterested Rickard,

. . . and a Pittsburgh promoter who couldn't find any more backing than 100K

. . . all strongly suggest that the 'fan demand' you claim is legendary not reality.

P.S. Yes you're right about Brennan not being a viable rematch. Kearns did in fact try to make it in Michigan and couldn't find his 300K guarantee there either, so he walked away from that fight as well.

Money for the Greb fight never surfaced. No one ever made the offer Kearns said he wanted, 300K.

The fight was certainly more viable than a guy Greb had already beaten four times. Doesn't it seem odd to you the Greb throttled Dempsey in sparring in September and Jack chose to instead fight Brennan in December? Why couldn't he have fought Greb? Was there more demand for the man Greb constantly beat......especially after whooping Dempsey in sparring? No way you can get me to believe that. And even if they chose Greb and lost money like you say they did against Brennan, at least they would have fought not only the more worthy challenger, but the better fighter.

[Willie Pep 229]

The fight was certainly more viable than a guy Greb had already beaten four times. Doesn't it seem odd to you the Greb throttled Dempsey in sparring in September and Jack chose to instead fight Brennan in December? Why couldn't he have fought Greb? Was there more demand for the man Greb constantly beat......especially after whooping Dempsey in sparring? No way you can get me to believe that. And even if they chose Greb and lost money like you say they did against Brennan, at least they would have fought not only the more worthy challenger, but the better fighter.

Dempsey owed Rickard a 1920 fight after Willard.

Rickard had a relationship with Brennan who was a respected name in 1920.

Brennan's losses to Greb in 1919 were three NWS and a PTS (often based on Pittsburgh newspaper calls.)

Brennan was on a ten fight winning streak in 1920 with seven KOs.

On the other hand, Rickard would not promote a Greb fight until Tunney in 1923 and that was only because Tunney had a relationship with Rickard, not Greb.

Even Greb's appearance on the Miske undercard and the whole PR nonsense that Greb beat up Dempsey in training, that goes with it, (a very old and still commonly used promotional tactic) was promoted by Floyd Fitzsimmons not Tex Rickard.

Greb was not big outside of Pittsburgh in 1920 and was building his brand by being in Denpsey's training camp and on Dempsey's undercard.

Greb was not on Rickard's radar. You have too much of this sports league fairness thing going, based on win-lose records, that were unoticed.

In fact no one was even complining these stats across State lines, and if someone did, it still would likely have not have mattered. It wasn't the way the game was promoted.

Greb's best publicity to that date was the sparing session story. Doesn't that suggest anything to you?

Greb was so 'not yet popular' in 1920'm that he brought his own 'regular opponent' Chuck Wiggins for his undercard opponent, in what was no more than a mere six round NWS fight.

Greb wasn't even worth promoting as a ten round preliminary fight. His six rounder against Wiggins was barely a step above an exhibition.

Rickard didn't have a relationship Greb, and until he beat Tunney had no interest in him.

In 1920 Greb was not a viable candidate and Rickard was not, at that time, paying him any mind.

The Brennan fight was the fight Dempsey owed Rickard and Brennan was Rickard's call.

Jab, you always get caught up in this 'fairness thing,' were you think that in 1920s America there was a national media, or a governing body that was promoting fairness.

Your view is hindsight. Driven by Greb's legendary status today. In 1920 that didn't exist. The best newspaper ink Greb could get in New York, in 1920, was being Dempsey's sparing partner and in a six rounder.

You need to put the whole picture together and in perspective.

There wasn't enough money to back a 1922 fight, there definitely was no interest in Greb-Dempsey in 1920. Certainly not in Tex Rickard's eyes.

[Dr Z]

- - Wills was selected multi X as I have proven multiple X, but clearly the governing States and Cities would not allow another Coast to Coast Rioting as happened with Johnson/Jeffries.

Can't make a Big $$$ title fight when no big venues and no big politicians forbid it.

Nobody but a few Greb supporters wanted to see 170 lb Greb who had been whooped by Tunney multi x go against Dempsey.

Grab a clue...

Others have washed you out already. Dempsey could fight in many cities all over the world and received a good offer from Wills' team and people interested in promoting the fight. He ducked his #1 contender for his career.


Kid Blackie fought near 170 pounds too. ( A.k.A Jack Dempsey ) and got thrashed by a 170- 175 pound Greb in sparring. That is why his team did not want to risk a boxing match vs. him.

[Bronson66]

Others have washed you out already. Dempsey could fight in many cities all over the world and received a good offer from Wills' team and people interested in promoting the fight. He ducked his #1 contender for his career.


Kid Blackie fought near 170 pounds too. ( A.k.A Jack Dempsey ) and got thrashed by a 170- 175 pound Greb in sparring. That is why his team did not want to risk a boxing match vs. him.

"Wills team" were not promoters and ,as such were in no position to offer Dempsey and his manager anything,having just finished the 3rd volume of Dempsey's biography by Adam Pollack,I know this to be the case. Pity you cannot read .

[Bronson66]

Prime Jack against the versions of Rocky's challengers that Rocky fought. Does he do better or worse?

Rocky's results.

Walcott ko1

Lastarza tko11

Charles dec15

Charles ko8

****ell tko 9

Moore ko9

Dempsey stops Walcott in the initial; round too.

Jack stops Lastarza in8rds.

Charles goes the distance but loses the dec.

Charles2 Dempsey takes him out in the same 8th round.

****ell goes out in4 rds.

Moore gets stopped in6 rds in a real shoot out.