Top 5 p4p fighters of all time

[Willie Pep 229]

why are Langford and Greb so low?

Maybe because neither man actually has that many scalp on his belt.

Yeah, I know all about the color line and how wrong it is, but never the less the scalp are not there.

While Greb has two great victories on his belt, a UD over Walker a WW and one out of five wins against Tunney. Other than that he didn't beat any champions I can think of.

I think #5 and #7 are high enough.

[them_apples]

Maybe because neither man actually has that many scalp on his belt.

Yeah, I know all about the color line and how wrong it is, but never the less the scalp are not there.

While Greb has two great victories on his belt, a UD over Walker a WW and one out of five wins against Tunney. Other than that he didn't beat any champions I can think of.

I think #5 and #7 are high enough.

greb has many, and he never drew the color line. Also, he got robbed in many of his losses, blatantly robbed via newspaper decisions.

he likely has 3 wins over Tunney, maybe 4. They were protecting Tunney for a fight with Dempsey. When Tunney got him in the 5th fight he had so many injuries from living so hard.

heres some if the guys he beat. Many of them were ruthless fighters in their primes when he fought them. Better than Walker, a fighter Greb beat pretty easily and he wasn’t even at his best. These guys were middleweights (some of them) who went life and death with Dempsey past prime. Some were light heavies, heavyweights. He fought everyone. He also fought them many times. And like I said, he was robbed in a large portion of his losses seriously robbed. All they had to do was post in the paper he lost / but there are dozens of other papers that would have him ahead by a wide margin. Theres no way Tunney beat him in fight 2, even fight 3 sounds like the same business. Just read what happened in the first fight he didn’t just beat tunney - he one sidedly best him up.

you are talking about a guy who lost an eye broke his arm twice (rebreak) broke his ribs from car crashes - tore his nose off his face from landing on the pavement. By the time Tunney got him all he had to do was re break something.

Billy Miske
Jack Blackburn
George Chip
Tommy Gibbons
Jack Dillon
Battling Levinsky
Jeff Smith
Gunboat Smith
Mike McTigue
Bill Brennan
Willie Meehan
Eddie McGoorty
Mike O'Dowd
Tiger Flowers
Maxie Rosenbloom
Mickey Walker
Johnny Wilson
Gene Tunney
Tommy Loughran
Jimmy Slattery
Kid Norfolk​

then there is the well documented story of Greb demolishing Dempsey in sparring on 2 occasions. “The worst decision of my life” as he said Dempsey would never fight him now.

45-0 in one single year

how could Robinson be ahead of this in any world. Robinson moved up to LhW and got cooked.


look at the guys Robinson was fighting at middleweight. Greb would have demoed every single one of them. And likely very easily.

[IronDanHamza]

Rocky Marciano #3?

What a strange inclusion.

[IronDanHamza]

greb has many, and he never drew the color line. Also, he got robbed in many of his losses, blatantly robbed via newspaper decisions.

he likely has 3 wins over Tunney, maybe 4. They were protecting Tunney for a fight with Dempsey. When Tunney got him in the 5th fight he had so many injuries from living so hard.

heres some if the guys he beat. Many of them were ruthless fighters in their primes when he fought them. Better than Walker, a fighter Greb beat pretty easily and he wasn�¢����t even at his best. These guys were middleweights (some of them) who went life and death with Dempsey past prime. Some were light heavies, heavyweights. He fought everyone. He also fought them many times. And like I said, he was robbed in a large portion of his losses seriously robbed. All they had to do was post in the paper he lost / but there are dozens of other papers that would have him ahead by a wide margin. Theres no way Tunney beat him in fight 2, even fight 3 sounds like the same business. Just read what happened in the first fight he didn�¢����t just beat tunney - he one sidedly best him up.

you are talking about a guy who lost an eye broke his arm twice (rebreak) broke his ribs from car crashes - tore his nose off his face from landing on the pavement. By the time Tunney got him all he had to do was re break something.

Billy Miske
Jack Blackburn
George Chip
Tommy Gibbons
Jack Dillon
Battling Levinsky
Jeff Smith
Gunboat Smith
Mike McTigue
Bill Brennan
Willie Meehan
Eddie McGoorty
Mike O'Dowd
Tiger Flowers
Maxie Rosenbloom
Mickey Walker
Johnny Wilson
Gene Tunney
Tommy Loughran
Jimmy Slattery
Kid Norfolk�¢����

then there is the well documented story of Greb demolishing Dempsey in sparring on 2 occasions. �¢����The worst decision of my life�¢���� as he said Dempsey would never fight him now.

45-0 in one single year

how could Robinson be ahead of this in any world. Robinson moved up to LhW and got cooked.


look at the guys Robinson was fighting at middleweight. Greb would have demoed every single one of them. And likely very easily.

How did he get “cooked” at LHW? That didn’t happen.

And LHW was what? 4 weight classes above where he started? 6 by todays standard.

[them_apples]

How did he get “cooked” at LHW? That didn’t happen.

And LHW was what? 4 weight classes above where he started? 6 by todays standard.

It didn’t happen? How so ? He literally got cooked in the heat. That fight was over before it began. What you think he was winning that fight? There is no way in hell. The fights up on youtube in decent quality. The very first round it looks like hes not gonna make it. Robinson is working way too hard to grab rounds and Maxims underated defense is avoiding the majority of it with a few small movements.

and if Greb started as a Welter and was fighting heavies while weighing 157 lbs consistently - why does Robinson get a pass?

I am starting to notice people judge fights based on the biased commentary not from actually watching fights. Robinson vs Maxim and Louis vs Charles are 2 perfect examples from the past. If you actually watch those fights both Maxim and Louis got done foul by commentating. It happens a LOT today as well. Its just a supporting tool
for betting. Look at the Mayweather vs Pac fight. What a joke that was - they won’t even allow people to exposé it with slow motion uploads.

[IronDanHamza]

It didn�¢����t happen? How so ? He literally got cooked in the heat. That fight was over before it began. What you think he was winning that fight? There is no way in hell. The fights up on youtube in decent quality. The very first round it looks like hes not gonna make it. Robinson is working way too hard to grab rounds and Maxims underated defense is avoiding the majority of it with a few small movements.

Robinson was well ahead on all three scorecards so he was objectively winnning that fight.

and if Greb started as a Welter and was fighting heavies while weighing 157 lbs consistently - why does Robinson get a pass?

Ok and Robinson started at 135 so?

I am starting to notice people judge fights based on the biased commentary not from actually watching fights. Robinson vs Maxim and Louis vs Charles are 2 perfect examples from the past. If you actually watch those fights both Maxim and Louis got done foul by commentating. It happens a LOT today as well. Its just a supporting tool
for betting.

In your mind maybe.

How do you explain all three judges having Robinson well ahead when they can't hear the commentators? Your theory implodes instantly there.

Look at the Mayweather vs Pac fight. What a joke that was - they won�t even allow people to exposé it with slow motion uploads.

I think it's more of a case of you being a terrible judge more than anything.

Mayweather beat Pacquaio with ease in a fight that was obviously not close.

[Hustle]

1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong
3. Wille Pep
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Sam Langford
8. Benny Leonard
9. Roberto Duran
10. Jack Dempsey
11. Jack Johnson
12. Mickey Walker
13. Tony Canzoneri
14. Gene Tunney
15. Rocky Marciano
16. Joe Gans
17. Sugar Ray Leonard
18. Barney Ross
19. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
20. Jimmy McLarnin
21. Marvin Hagler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Ezzard Charles
24. Archie Moore
25. Manny Pacquiao
26. Carlos Monzon
27. Marcel Cerdan
28. Barbados Joe Walcott
29. Jimmy Wilde
30. Jose Napoles
31. Stanley Ketchel
32. Terry McGovern
33. Eder Jofre
34. George Foreman
35. Johnny Dundee
36. Jake LaMotta
37. Pascual Perez
38. Emile Griffith
39. Bernard Hopkins
40. Billy Conn
41. Ruben Olivares
42. Tommy Loughran
43. Sandy Saddler
44. Kid Chocolate
45. Abe Attell
46. Larry Holmes
47. George Dixon
48. Ted "Kid" Lewis
49. Lennox Lewis
50. Pernell Whitaker

Any top 50 list without Roy Jones isn't credible. Champ from middleweight to heavyweight