ESPN best of the 21st century

[JAB5239]

- - Very few professional p4p lists exist for good reason, ie ain't worth the effort to prove the unprovable much less a group of kiddies still wetting their undies on ESPN.

What's your point? Or maybe you're just trying to divert attention because you don't know the difference between a p4p list and a heavyweight list. Your spider monkey Desmond does, but he's probably not spending every waken hour drunk either.

[Willow The Wisp]

I like lists. I understand they're subjective. But disagree with Vits being number 10. Wlad was clearly the better fighter who fought the best available. That said he wouldn't make my top 10 either. I also have serious reservations about Calzaghe making this list. His best wins were against old shopworn legends in Hopkins and Jones, and he barely sc****d by Hop. Outside of Kessler his resume is very thin. Instead I'd have Crawford and Inoue in there. Thoughts and opinions?

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/...en-boxers-2000

These are not Boxing Historians who write these things; they are sports generalists. When asking a questing containing phrases like "All-Time" or "Best of century", the distinction becomes painfully obvious.
(You don't ask a podiatrist to perform complex neuro surgery on you, do you? - Same thing).
I know ESPN and how it works there.

I'll start with the most egregious error - placing Vitali Klitschko as the 10th best fighter of the 21st century.

He is no better than the 7th best HEAVYWEIGHT of the century, and there simply is no cogent argument for placing Vitali any higher based on careful examination of his record and those of his opponents, and their opponents; and the timing and results of those contests.

How about a reasonably SANE alternative list?

The cutoff date of January 1, 2000 is a sticking point, as some fighters continued to do great things beyond the date, but did the majority of their best work in the decade (ergo century) prior. But we won't let trans-century greats trip us up too much. We'll simply "place an asterisk" next to those to whom the fence sitting really applies. (Roy Jones was "done" in 04', for example).

Here then, hastily composed, is my two cents (and worth every penny):


1. Floyd Mayweather Jr, US, 96-17, 50-0-0(27)
2. Manny Pacquiao, PHI, 95-21, 62-8-2(40)
3. Oleksandr Usyk, UKR, 13-24, 22-0-0(14)
4. Terrance Crawford, US, 08-24, 40-0-0(31)
5. Naoya Inoue, JAP, 12-24, 27-0-0(24)
5. Gennadiy Golovkin, KAZ, 06-22, 42-2-1(37)
6. Canelo Alvarez, MEX, 05-24, 61-2-2(39)
7. Andre Ward, US, 04-17, 32-0-0(16)
8. Tyson Fury, UK, 08-24, 34-1-1(24)
9. Roman Gonzalez, NIC, 05-24, 52-4-0(42)
10.Wladimir Klitschko, UKR, 96-17, 64-5-0(53)
11.Lennox Lewis, UK, 89-03, 41-2-1(32)
12.Oscar De La Hoya, US, 92-08, 39-6-0(30)
13.Juan Manuel Marquez, MEX, 93-14, 56-7-1(40)
14.Joe Calzaghe, UK, 93-08, 46-0-0(32)
15.Bernard Hopkins, US, 88-16, 55-8-2(32)
16.Miguel Cotto, PR, 01-17, 41-6-0(33)
17.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, THI, 94-18, 91-5-2(47)
18. Acelino Freitas, BRZ, 95-17, 41-2-0(34)
19.Vasyl Lomachenko, UKR, 13-24, 18-3-0(12)
20.Winky Wright, US, 90-12, 51-6-1(25)
21.Ivan Calderon, PR, 01-12, 35-3-1(6)
22.Sergio Martinez, ARG, 97-23, 57-3-2(32)
23.Anthony Joshua, UK, 13-24, 28-3-0(25)
24.Timothy Bradley Jr, US, 04-16, 33-2-1(13)
25.Chris John, IND, 98-13, 48-1-3(22)
26.Gervonta Davis, US, 13-24, 30-0-0(28)
27.Edwin Valero, VEN, 02-10, 27-0-0(27)
28.Shawn Porter, US, 08-21, 31-4-1(17)
29.Deontay Wilder, US, 08-24, 43-4-1(42)
30.Keith Thurman, US, 07-22, 30-1-0(22)
31.Mikkel Kessler, DEN, 98-13, 46-3-0(35)
32.David Haye, UK, 02-18, 284-0(26)
33.Wisaksil Wangek, THI, 09-24, 56-6-1(46)
34.Ricky Hatton, UK, 97-12, 45-3-0(32)
35.Rafael Marquez, MEX, 95-13, 41-9-0(37)
36.Nonito Donaire, PHI, 01-23, 42-8-0(28)
37.Artur Beterbiev, RUS, 13-24, 20-0-0(20)
38.Joel Casamayor, CUB, 96-11, 38-6-1(22)
39.Paul Williams, US, 00-12, 41-2-0(27)
40.Adonis Stevenson, HAI, 06-18, 29-2-1(24)
41.Kell Brook, UK, 04-22, 40-3-0(28)
42.Arthur Abraham, ARM, 03-16, 47-6-0(30)
43.Danny Garcia, US, 07-22, 37-3-0(21)
44.Teofimo Lopez, US, 16-24, 21-1-0(13)
45.Dmitrii Bivol, KYR, 14-24, 23-0-0(12)
46.Kelly Pavlik, US, 00-12, 40-2-0(34)
47.Jean Paul Mendy, FRA, 00-11, 29-1-1(16)
48.Sven Ottke, GER, 97-04, 34-0-0(6)
49.Ryan Garcia, 16-24, 24-1-0(20)
50.Jermain Taylor, US, 01-14, 33-4-1(20)
51.Carl Froch, UK, 02-14, 33-2-0(24)
52.Errol Spence Jr, US, 12-23, 28-1-0(22)
53.Mikey Garcia, US, 06-21, 40-2-0(30)
54.Mairis Briedis, LAT, 09-24, 28-3-0(20)
55.Juan Diaz, US, 00-16, 42-4-0(21)
56.Antonio Tarver, US, 97-15, 31-6-1(22)
57.Zab Judah, US, 96-19, 44-10-0(30)
58.Israel Vazquez, MEX, 95-10, 44-5-0(32)
59.David Benavidez, US, 13-24, 29-0-0(24)
60.Sergey Kovalev, RUS, 09-24, 35-5-1(29)
61.Artur Grigorian, UZB, 94-09, 38-1-0(23)
62.Devin Haney, US, 15-24, 31-0-0(15)
63.Billy Joe Saunders, UK, 09-21, 30-1-0(14)
64.Antonio Margarito, US, 94-17, 41-8-0(27)
65.Marco Huck, SER, 04-24, 43-5-1(28)
66.Jaron Ennis, US, 16-25, 32-0-0(29)
67.Junto Nakatani, JAP, 15-24, 28-0-0(21)
68.Chad Dawson, US, 01-19, 36-5-0(19)
69.Jermell Charlo, US, 07-23, 35-2-1(19)
70.Shakur Stevenson, US, 17-24, 22-0-0(10
71.Oscar Larios, MEX, 94-09, 63-7-1(39)
72.Fernando Montiel, MEX, 96-16, 54-6-2(39)
73.Jai Opetaia, AUS, 15-24, 25-0-0(19)
74.Badou Jack, SWE, 09-23,
75.Carl Frampton, IRE, 09-21, 28-3-0(16)




*Belong rated as 20th century greats:

Roy Jones Jr, US, 89-23, 66-10-0(47)
Shane Mosley, US, 93-16, 49-10-1(41)
Marco Antonio Barerra, MEX, 89-11, 67-7-0(44)
Ricardo Lopez, MEX, 85-01, 51-0-1(38)
Felix Trinidad, PR, 90-08, 42-3-0(35)
Erik Morales, MEX, 93-12, 52-9-0(36)
Jose Luis Castillo, MEX, 90-14, 66-13-1(57)
Kostya Tszyu, AUS, 92-05, 31-2-0(25)
Fabrice Tiozzo, FRA, 88-06, 48-2-0(32)
Naseem Hamed, UK, 92-02, 36-1-0(31)

Gosh, golly, no Vitali!!!!!!!!

[JAB5239]

These are not Boxing Historians who write these things; they are sports generalists. When asking a questing containing phrases like "All-Time" or "Best of century", the distinction becomes painfully obvious.
(You don't ask a podiatrist to perform complex neuro surgery on you, do you? - Same thing).
I know ESPN and how it works there.

I'll start with the most egregious error - placing Vitali Klitschko as the 10th best fighter of the 21st century.

He is no better than the 7th best HEAVYWEIGHT of the century, and there simply is no cogent argument for placing Vitali any higher based on careful examination of his record and those of his opponents, and their opponents; and the timing and results of those contests.

How about a reasonably SANE alternative list?

The cutoff date of January 1, 2000 is a sticking point, as some fighters continued to do great things beyond the date, but did the majority of their best work in the decade (ergo century) prior. But we won't let trans-century greats trip us up too much. We'll simply "place an asterisk" next to those to whom the fence sitting really applies. (Roy Jones was "done" in 04', for example).

Here then, hastily composed, is my two cents (and worth every penny):


1. Floyd Mayweather Jr, US, 96-17, 50-0-0(27)
2. Manny Pacquiao, PHI, 95-21, 62-8-2(40)
3. Oleksandr Usyk, UKR, 13-24, 22-0-0(14)
4. Terrance Crawford, US, 08-24, 40-0-0(31)
5. Naoya Inoue, JAP, 12-24, 27-0-0(24)
5. Gennadiy Golovkin, KAZ, 06-22, 42-2-1(37)
6. Canelo Alvarez, MEX, 05-24, 61-2-2(39)
7. Andre Ward, US, 04-17, 32-0-0(16)
8. Tyson Fury, UK, 08-24, 34-1-1(24)
9. Roman Gonzalez, NIC, 05-24, 52-4-0(42)
10.Wladimir Klitschko, UKR, 96-17, 64-5-0(53)
11.Lennox Lewis, UK, 89-03, 41-2-1(32)
12.Oscar De La Hoya, US, 92-08, 39-6-0(30)
13.Juan Manuel Marquez, MEX, 93-14, 56-7-1(40)
14.Joe Calzaghe, UK, 93-08, 46-0-0(32)
15.Bernard Hopkins, US, 88-16, 55-8-2(32)
16.Miguel Cotto, PR, 01-17, 41-6-0(33)
17.Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, THI, 94-18, 91-5-2(47)
18. Acelino Freitas, BRZ, 95-17, 41-2-0(34)
19.Vasyl Lomachenko, UKR, 13-24, 18-3-0(12)
20.Winky Wright, US, 90-12, 51-6-1(25)
21.Ivan Calderon, PR, 01-12, 35-3-1(6)
22.Sergio Martinez, ARG, 97-23, 57-3-2(32)
23.Anthony Joshua, UK, 13-24, 28-3-0(25)
24.Timothy Bradley Jr, US, 04-16, 33-2-1(13)
25.Chris John, IND, 98-13, 48-1-3(22)
26.Gervonta Davis, US, 13-24, 30-0-0(28)
27.Edwin Valero, VEN, 02-10, 27-0-0(27)
28.Shawn Porter, US, 08-21, 31-4-1(17)
29.Deontay Wilder, US, 08-24, 43-4-1(42)
30.Keith Thurman, US, 07-22, 30-1-0(22)
31.Mikkel Kessler, DEN, 98-13, 46-3-0(35)
32.David Haye, UK, 02-18, 284-0(26)
33.Wisaksil Wangek, THI, 09-24, 56-6-1(46)
34.Ricky Hatton, UK, 97-12, 45-3-0(32)
35.Rafael Marquez, MEX, 95-13, 41-9-0(37)
36.Nonito Donaire, PHI, 01-23, 42-8-0(28)
37.Artur Beterbiev, RUS, 13-24, 20-0-0(20)
38.Joel Casamayor, CUB, 96-11, 38-6-1(22)
39.Paul Williams, US, 00-12, 41-2-0(27)
40.Adonis Stevenson, HAI, 06-18, 29-2-1(24)
41.Kell Brook, UK, 04-22, 40-3-0(28)
42.Arthur Abraham, ARM, 03-16, 47-6-0(30)
43.Danny Garcia, US, 07-22, 37-3-0(21)
44.Teofimo Lopez, US, 16-24, 21-1-0(13)
45.Dmitrii Bivol, KYR, 14-24, 23-0-0(12)
46.Kelly Pavlik, US, 00-12, 40-2-0(34)
47.Jean Paul Mendy, FRA, 00-11, 29-1-1(16)
48.Sven Ottke, GER, 97-04, 34-0-0(6)
49.Ryan Garcia, 16-24, 24-1-0(20)
50.Jermain Taylor, US, 01-14, 33-4-1(20)
51.Carl Froch, UK, 02-14, 33-2-0(24)
52.Errol Spence Jr, US, 12-23, 28-1-0(22)
53.Mikey Garcia, US, 06-21, 40-2-0(30)
54.Mairis Briedis, LAT, 09-24, 28-3-0(20)
55.Juan Diaz, US, 00-16, 42-4-0(21)
56.Antonio Tarver, US, 97-15, 31-6-1(22)
57.Zab Judah, US, 96-19, 44-10-0(30)
58.Israel Vazquez, MEX, 95-10, 44-5-0(32)
59.David Benavidez, US, 13-24, 29-0-0(24)
60.Sergey Kovalev, RUS, 09-24, 35-5-1(29)
61.Artur Grigorian, UZB, 94-09, 38-1-0(23)
62.Devin Haney, US, 15-24, 31-0-0(15)
63.Billy Joe Saunders, UK, 09-21, 30-1-0(14)
64.Antonio Margarito, US, 94-17, 41-8-0(27)
65.Marco Huck, SER, 04-24, 43-5-1(28)
66.Jaron Ennis, US, 16-25, 32-0-0(29)
67.Junto Nakatani, JAP, 15-24, 28-0-0(21)
68.Chad Dawson, US, 01-19, 36-5-0(19)
69.Jermell Charlo, US, 07-23, 35-2-1(19)
70.Shakur Stevenson, US, 17-24, 22-0-0(10
71.Oscar Larios, MEX, 94-09, 63-7-1(39)
72.Fernando Montiel, MEX, 96-16, 54-6-2(39)
73.Jai Opetaia, AUS, 15-24, 25-0-0(19)
74.Badou Jack, SWE, 09-23,
75.Carl Frampton, IRE, 09-21, 28-3-0(16)




*Belong rated as 20th century greats:

Roy Jones Jr, US, 89-23, 66-10-0(47)
Shane Mosley, US, 93-16, 49-10-1(41)
Marco Antonio Barerra, MEX, 89-11, 67-7-0(44)
Ricardo Lopez, MEX, 85-01, 51-0-1(38)
Felix Trinidad, PR, 90-08, 42-3-0(35)
Erik Morales, MEX, 93-12, 52-9-0(36)
Jose Luis Castillo, MEX, 90-14, 66-13-1(57)
Kostya Tszyu, AUS, 92-05, 31-2-0(25)
Fabrice Tiozzo, FRA, 88-06, 48-2-0(32)
Naseem Hamed, UK, 92-02, 36-1-0(31)

Gosh, golly, no Vitali!!!!!!!!

I am always so impressed with your ability and knowledge to put together such comprehensive lists. And while I don't agree with all the placements I fully agree that this (original) list was not put together by any historian, but by a sports journalist who may know boxing somewhat, but not enough to make a list that is truly valuable whether we agree on the placements or not. Also agree on Vits. Highly overrated my opinion has always been. Good fighter, but a lousy resume in a weak era when he could have chosen so many better fights.

[QueensburyRules]

What's your point? Or maybe you're just trying to divert attention because you don't know the difference between a p4p list and a heavyweight list. Your spider monkey Desmond does, but he's probably not spending every waken hour drunk either.

- - I responded to the typical dimwittery of claiming the Ks were trash when if fact both were on Ring P4P and Heavy Ratings.

U respond to the dimwittery U parents endowed U wif...

[Willow The Wisp]

I am always so impressed with your ability and knowledge to put together such comprehensive lists. And while I don't agree with all the placements I fully agree that this (original) list was not put together by any historian, but by a sports journalist who may know boxing somewhat, but not enough to make a list that is truly valuable whether we agree on the placements or not. Also agree on Vits. Highly overrated my opinion has always been. Good fighter, but a lousy resume in a weak era when he could have chosen so many better fights.

Thanks Buddy.
Ya, nobody's got a list of anything +10 deep that suits everyone.

[JAB5239]

- - I responded to the typical dimwittery of claiming the Ks were trash when if fact both were on Ring P4P and Heavy Ratings.

U respond to the dimwittery U parents endowed U wif...

I will respectfully advise you to proceed with caution when talking about my family. Whatever you want to say about me personally is fine, I can take it. The rest, if we ever meet in person, you can say to my face instead I've hiding behind a keyboard.

As far as the Klits go.....please show me where Vits was ever rated in The Rings p4p ratings. Wlad was ranked 8th for several years and got as high as #4. Does that mean he deserves to be in the top 10 of the 21st century? Not in my book, obviously not in other people's opinions either. Who exactly did ole Vits beat to deserve such a lofty rating? His resume is weak and career orchestrated to take the path of least resistance. Wlad doesn't belong in the top 10 either, but he has a way better claim than big bro. Would you care to argue that?

[QueensburyRules]

I will respectfully advise you to proceed with caution when talking about my family. Whatever you want to say about me personally is fine, I can take it. The rest, if we ever meet in person, you can say to my face instead I've hiding behind a keyboard.

As far as the Klits go.....please show me where Vits was ever rated in The Rings p4p ratings. Wlad was ranked 8th for several years and got as high as #4. Does that mean he deserves to be in the top 10 of the 21st century? Not in my book, obviously not in other people's opinions either. Who exactly did ole Vits beat to deserve such a lofty rating? His resume is weak and career orchestrated to take the path of least resistance. Wlad doesn't belong in the top 10 either, but he has a way better claim than big bro. Would you care to argue that?

- - I don't hide sonny, but thus far U ain't provided a link to prove U a member of AOL, so links are lost on U because of U dimwittery in not understanding boxing.

[JAB5239]

- - I don't hide sonny, but thus far U ain't provided a link to prove U a member of AOL, so links are lost on U because of U dimwittery in not understanding boxing.

You don't hide? Go ahead and show me where Vits was rated in the Rings p4p rankings. I'll wait. AOL? JAB5239 was certainly a member there, but I have no need to prove I was on an antiquated forum. I don't ever remember a QueensburyRules there though.

[QueensburyRules]

You don't hide? Go ahead and show me where Vits was rated in the Rings p4p rankings. I'll wait. AOL? JAB5239 was certainly a member there, but I have no need to prove I was on an antiquated forum. I don't ever remember a QueensburyRules there though.

- - U was apparently and still are a monkey.

I used to pull up Scott's old contributions here to pay him tribute. U was mute because U deaf and dumb to then and now.

[JAB5239]

- - U was apparently and still are a monkey.

I used to pull up Scott's old contributions here to pay him tribute. U was mute because U deaf and dumb to then and now.

I'm sorry, weren't you saying something about Vits being in the top10 p4p by The Ring?

I didn't think so.