Mayweather path of least resistance and Canelo

[travestyny]

We also have to remember Pacquiao's shoulder injured prior to the fight. He requested a shot which was denied. After the 4th round he couldn't throw that right with any conviction. Despite all of that, Floyd clinched, ran and jabbed his way to a boring win that proved nothing. He admits he marinated the fight for five years, so blame for not making it sooner clearly lies with him. He insisted he deserved credit for being "smart" by prolonging the fight for over five years. He never would have insisted on drug testing had he not seen something special in Manny that he feared.

Manny's win over Thurman at age 40+ demonstrated he was never afraid of Floyd. Manny fought rematches with opponents who took him to hell and back, no way he'd be afraid of a guy who throws 30 punchers per round and is content to win boring decisions.

It's pathetic to watch Floyd's fangirls suggest that any win achieved by Manny or Canelo is a win for Floyd. That is b!tch logic, LOL.

I think you confuse being physically afraid of Floyd with being afraid of what an early loss to Mayweather does to his career.

Pac's team also marinated the fight clearly. They weren't ready to cash out or take a step back and rebuild. They at times flat out stated that they would take a fight with _______ because the Mayweather fight will "always be there."

[billeau2]

We also have to remember Pacquiao's shoulder injured prior to the fight. He requested a shot which was denied. After the 4th round he couldn't throw that right with any conviction. Despite all of that, Floyd clinched, ran and jabbed his way to a boring win that proved nothing. He admits he marinated the fight for five years, so blame for not making it sooner clearly lies with him. He insisted he deserved credit for being "smart" by prolonging the fight for over five years. He never would have insisted on drug testing had he not seen something special in Manny that he feared.

Manny's win over Thurman at age 40+ demonstrated he was never afraid of Floyd. Manny fought rematches with opponents who took him to hell and back, no way he'd be afraid of a guy who throws 30 punchers per round and is content to win boring decisions.

It's pathetic to watch Floyd's fangirls suggest that any win achieved by Manny or Canelo is a win for Floyd. That is b!tch logic, LOL.

I honestly cannot in good conscience look at these types of situations. I can't because imo there are usually things affecting a fighter... we would have to know virtually all of them o draw a conclusion regarding which of these stand out. the solution to this was how it used to be done: Guys fought a lot, so part of their greatness was their ability to fight through such injuries. It is also a difference between athletes and fighters. Finally... thisb is why we need 15 rounds for championship fights... so we can see when both guys are diminished as part of their performance.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if these two fought earlier and more often...

I agree with the second statement. With the caveat Manny did not force the issue and from what I saw Floyd managed to deter him when he did manage to be bolder... But there is an inherent advantage to waiting the other guy out defensively and Manny did have his moments going to the body particularly.

Yes Floyd "managed" his career lol. I think you will find that seldom, if ever, are the undefeated fighters the ones we think about as "unbeatable." Marciano, Calzighe... Compared to Ray Robinson Armstrong, Duran... I would take a ":beatable" Hearns at like 147 to beat an undefeated "Floyd" lol.

Yes and No... I mean when we look at Jones for example, How would we see him if he had not beaten Toney and Hopkins? If we look at Ward, lets assume Kovalev became the monster people thought he might when he was formidable? The fact that Andre fought Kovalev and beat him, coming up, means a lot, but alas, it recedes a bit compared to how it would have looked if Kovalev had bested GG and Canelo.

With that said? there is a time and place to look at such victories with more circumspection. Canelo was indeed a heck of a scalp for Floyd, to a degree... we can then look at catch weight, times in their career, etc. I would however not look at the Manny victory as anything special because the fight was was late coming and showed us little more than a glorified sparring match. Floyd does deserve the Victory but it is not much IMO compared to the Canelo win which was superb.

And yes, This victory does not indicate that the winning fighter gets credit for all the losing fighters greatness lol!

[travestyny]

I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could have that fight even remotely close.

Floyd had some close fights, that definitely wasn't one of them.

Right. I think people saw competitive rounds and did some wishful thinking for Pacquiao but in actuality he wasn't winning enough rounds and couldn't make adjustments.

[billeau2]

I think it's a product of the rounds being close. I think Mayweather was picking up the rounds but it's not like he was blowing Pac away in the rounds. And to me it felt like as the fight went on, Mayweather was becoming more settled in his technical advantages and Pacquaio wasn't showing any adjustments. So it was perhaps an easy decision but a close fight, that I personally felt would have just gotten wider with more rounds since Pac couldn't adjust to Floyd's technique.

Makes sense. The bold... well said.

[travestyny]

It's pathetic to watch Floyd's fangirls suggest that any win achieved by Manny or Canelo is a win for Floyd. That is b!tch logic, LOL.

And yes, This victory does not indicate that the winning fighter gets credit for all the losing fighters greatness lol!

I think he misunderstood my point.

If Pacquiao is to be greatly praised for defeating Thurman, then Mayweather should be credited with beating a fighter of that level. I just don't want to hear people saying Pac was so faded when he finally fought Mayweather, but suddenly when he fought Thurman it proves that he was still an animal. If he was an animal for Thurman, he was an Animal for Mayweather but just got muted in there by a master boxer.

[IronDanHamza]

I think he misunderstood my point.

If Pacquiao is to be greatly praised for defeating Thurman, then Mayweather should be credited with beating a fighter of that level. I just don't want to hear people saying Pac was so faded when he finally fought Mayweather, but suddenly when he fought Thurman it proves that he was still an animal. If he was an animal for Thurman, he was an Animal for Mayweather but just got muted in there by a master boxer.

Well, it's just a dumb argument anyway.

Pacquaio was #1 at WW and #2 P4P when Floyd beat him. It's non sensical to suggest someone doesn't deserve credit for beating a fighter who is universally considered to be one of the best fighters in the whole of boxing across all weight classes.

Then especially when you add in the wins he had post that loss.

[GhostofDempsey]

I honestly cannot in good conscience look at these types of situations. I can't because imo there are usually things affecting a fighter... we would have to know virtually all of them o draw a conclusion regarding which of these stand out. the solution to this was how it used to be done: Guys fought a lot, so part of their greatness was their ability to fight through such injuries. It is also a difference between athletes and fighters. Finally... thisb is why we need 15 rounds for championship fights... so we can see when both guys are diminished as part of their performance.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if these two fought earlier and more often...

I agree with the second statement. With the caveat Manny did not force the issue and from what I saw Floyd managed to deter him when he did manage to be bolder... But there is an inherent advantage to waiting the other guy out defensively and Manny did have his moments going to the body particularly.

Yes Floyd "managed" his career lol. I think you will find that seldom, if ever, are the undefeated fighters the ones we think about as "unbeatable." Marciano, Calzighe... Compared to Ray Robinson Armstrong, Duran... I would take a ":beatable" Hearns at like 147 to beat an undefeated "Floyd" lol.

Yes and No... I mean when we look at Jones for example, How would we see him if he had not beaten Toney and Hopkins? If we look at Ward, lets assume Kovalev became the monster people thought he might when he was formidable? The fact that Andre fought Kovalev and beat him, coming up, means a lot, but alas, it recedes a bit compared to how it would have looked if Kovalev had bested GG and Canelo.

With that said? there is a time and place to look at such victories with more circumspection. Canelo was indeed a heck of a scalp for Floyd, to a degree... we can then look at catch weight, times in their career, etc. I would however not look at the Manny victory as anything special because the fight was was late coming and showed us little more than a glorified sparring match. Floyd does deserve the Victory but it is not much IMO compared to the Canelo win which was superb.

And yes, This victory does not indicate that the winning fighter gets credit for all the losing fighters greatness lol!

Even the win over Canelo, while good IMO, was not great. Floyd constantly steps on his own words. He and his fans celebrate the win over Canelo, yet when Floyd was promoting Tank, he insisted Tank was "too young" to fight Loma from the ages of 23 - 27. Insisted Loma would be 40 eventually. Despite Tank having held a world title at age 22. Yet Floyd and his fans never insist Canelo was "too young" at 23 to fight Floyd. Canelo had a relatively short amateur career of about 60 fights (half as many as Floyd), and with just over 40 pro fights to his record and never being on a big stage like this, his inexperience was put on display. His best wins to that point was a washed up Mosley and a close decision over Trout that was disputed and controversial.

I think Canelo went into the Floyd fight over-confident coming off a couple of decent wins. Once Canelo hit his stride just a year after, Floyd would refuse a rematch. He would also reject an offer from Sergio Martinez who offered to come all the way down to 150 to fight him.

Floyd's promoters and management were brilliant at timing his opponents careers and catching them on the way up or down while they were still household names. Waiting them out while other top ranked fighters eliminated one another. Fake retirements, weight jumping, and never fighting the best guy at any weight. While the likes of Thurman, Garcia, Spence, Crawford and Khan were calling him out at 147, he was content to settle on Maidana, even after asking fans if he should fight Khan or Maidana as his next opponent and they overwhelmingly selected Khan. Maidana turned out to be a cherry pick gone wrong and a robbery.

[travestyny]

Here is a blast from the past. How does this not count as Pacquaio's team "marinating the fight"?

Manny Pacquiao is said to want Juan Manuel Marquez rematch

Manny Pacquiao’s promoter said Monday that the Filipino superstar prefers a fourth fight against Juan Manuel Marquez to a super-fight against Floyd Mayweather Jr.


“That fight [Mayweather] can still be there for us in November [2012],” Bob Arum told The Times.


That position brought a strong reaction from rival promoter and former fighter Oscar De La Hoya, who helps promote Mayweather and said the 42-0 welterweight champion has already reserved May 5 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas for boxing’s dream fight.

“I say to Manny, fighter to fighter, ‘Step it up, tell Arum what you want,’ ” De La Hoya said. “You’re the fighter. You’re a congressman. You call the shots here and decide who you’re going to fight.”

De La Hoya said he’s confident Mayweather wants the mega-bout. De La Hoya said he has spoken to Mayweather’s advisor and manager, Al Haymon, and received further assurance.

However, Arum said Pacquiao agrees his narrow and controversial majority decision over Marquez on Saturday at the MGM Grand “did not have the finish he wanted.” That, he added, justified a fourth fight between the combatants.

Pacquiao, 32, and Marquez, 38, previously fought to a draw in 2004 and a split decision won by Pacquiao in 2008.

Arum said he’ll stage Pacquiao-Marquez IV in April or June, either at Cowboys Stadium in Dallas or a specially constructed outdoor venue in Las Vegas.

“We know who doesn’t want the big fight now,” De La Hoya said. “And his name is Bob Arum.”

https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-xp...ry.html

[billeau2]

Even the win over Canelo, while good IMO, was not great. Floyd constantly steps on his own words. He and his fans celebrate the win over Canelo, yet when Floyd was promoting Tank, he insisted Tank was "too young" to fight Loma from the ages of 23 - 27. Insisted Loma would be 40 eventually. Despite Tank having held a world title at age 22. Yet Floyd and his fans never insist Canelo was "too young" at 23 to fight Floyd. Canelo had a relatively short amateur career of about 60 fights (half as many as Floyd), and with just over 40 pro fights to his record and never being on a big stage like this, his inexperience was put on display. His best wins to that point was a washed up Mosley and a close decision over Trout that was disputed and controversial.

I think Canelo went into the Floyd fight over-confident coming off a couple of decent wins. Once Canelo hit his stride just a year after, Floyd would refuse a rematch. He would also reject an offer from Sergio Martinez who offered to come all the way down to 150 to fight him.

Floyd's promoters and management were brilliant at timing his opponents careers and catching them on the way up or down while they were still household names. Waiting them out while other top ranked fighters eliminated one another. Fake retirements, weight jumping, and never fighting the best guy at any weight. While the likes of Thurman, Garcia, Spence, Crawford and Khan were calling him out at 147, he was content to settle on Maidana, even after asking fans if he should fight Khan or Maidana as his next opponent and they overwhelmingly selected Khan. Maidana turned out to be a cherry pick gone wrong and a robbery.

It was what it was lol... The hypocracy aside, which is something we see with so many... Of course when your man beats a young up and comer they are a juggernaut! Same situation with your fighter as the young fighter? you are bringing them along properly, things change! lol. No it is not right but it is always how the business works, probably for any fighter/team.

Your going to have a problem matching great fighters prime for prime... I tend to think Trout, if he in fact lost that fight, was underrated... Does this mean Canelo was ready for Floyd? Maybe not in a perfect world but alas we do not live in such a world. Of course... yes, Floyd generally is not giving an opponent two cracks at the apple... And yes Canelo was better, but that loss to Floyd probably was part of his development that made him better. It can get complicated.

This (the bolded) is absolutely true... Some would compliment Floyd on this, some? perhaps like you, or I, it would leave a bad taste in our mouths.

I don't know how much one would avoid a fighter like Kahn, Actually, even a fighter like Garcia would seem to be a good risk for Floyd. This phenomena of "Title Jumping" it drives me nuts... It gives credability to fighters like Broner and is a direct product of all this alphabet soup. Did Floyd go title shopping?

[travestyny]

I think what has happened a lot is that Mayweather, for being one of the most popular boxers ever, is under a microscope. But the irony is that the same can be done for other boxers, for instance, Pacquiao.

It could be stated he marinated the Mosley fight (didn't Roach tell Mosley he was too good for a shot at one point), his team has acknowledged their fault for not accepting the first attempt at a Mayweather fight, and like Mayweather, he didn't seem interested in fighting P Will or Sergio Martinez. Neither chose Amir Khan over other boxers. He wouldn't fight Cotto without a catchweight.

Seems like there is a lot of hate for Mayweather when a lot of the points brought up against him are not mentioned even when they are exactly the same for other boxers.