Let’s get this straight about the Ali-Marciano comp fight

[Bundana]

It does seem this way because even when overwhelming evidence is presented - certain people will argue for the sake of arguing. To this day you say I don't back any of my claims up. I continuously support my arguments! So how else can I get my point across without sounding insulting?

I'd like to see the "overwhelming evidence" that supports your contention that:

... most modern fighters have glass chins.
... modern boxers have thinner sculls than the oldtimers.

(just to mention a couple of your weird beliefs).

[Ivich]

Well, If I haven't seen them than neither have you. the argument works both ways. I am basing it off what I have actually seen. Considering boxing has been riddled with robberies since the beginning of time, it would be foolish to simply go with the scorecards. On the other hand weren't you calling Louis Walcott a Robbery? what if we never got to see the fight? (or parts of it)

But I am NOT making sweeping statements about fights I haven't seen and YOU ARE !

YOU say ALL his fights were ONE SIDED SURVIVAL MISSIONS some of those fights YOU have not seen!

Where is the logic there? Where is the sense?

I've read all the fight reports.I have 4 books on Marciano which go into detail about those fights.Should I now discount those and accept your opinion?
An opinion which is based on what?

Hero worship!
If you haven't seen a fight, what else do you have to go on to form a TENTATIVE opinion,but the fight reports and the books available on it?

Robberies?
Many thought Lowry and Lastarza were robbed!

Marciano's manager was also the MSG matchmaker employed by the IBC which was run by Norris under the aegis of Frankie Carbo,who told Norris which fights to put on and by extension told Weill which fights to accept for Rocky.

If anybody got the "rub of the green," in those close fights , if anybody was the beneficiary of those close decisions it was Marciano!

No! I have no opinion as to who won the first Louis v Walcott fight, because I haven't seen the complete fight and neither has anyone else who is still above ground!

I consider myself of average intelligence,but sensible enough not to give a definitive decision on a fight for which I've only seen edited highlights.

[them_apples]

But I am NOT making sweeping statements about fights I haven't seen and YOU ARE !

YOU say ALL his fights were ONE SIDED SURVIVAL MISSIONS some of those fights YOU have not seen!

Where is the logic there? Where is the sense?

I've read all the fight reports.I have 4 books on Marciano which go into detail about those fights.Should I now discount those and accept your opinion?
An opinion which is based on what?

Hero worship!
If you haven't seen a fight, what else do you have to go on to form a TENTATIVE opinion,but the fight reports and the books available on it?

Robberies?
Many thought Lowry and Lastarza were robbed!

Marciano's manager was also the MSG matchmaker employed by the IBC which was run by Norris under the aegis of Frankie Carbo,who told Norris which fights to put on and by extension told Weill which fights to accept for Rocky.

If anybody got the "rub of the green," in those close fights , if anybody was the beneficiary of those close decisions it was Marciano!

No! I have no opinion as to who won the first Louis v Walcott fight, because I haven't seen the complete fight and neither has anyone else who is still above ground!

I consider myself of average intelligence,but sensible enough not to give a definitive decision on a fight for which I've only seen edited highlights.

The reason I have said all of Marcianos fights are one sided survival missions is because outside of the knockdowns, I have never actually seen Marciano look like he was in fear of losing. You can just tell. He's on a mission to destroy the other guy and the other guy is just trying to survive. There are statements out there saying Marciano struggled with guys like ****ell gave him trouble. What fight are they watching? Because its not a first round Ko he somehow gave Rocky trouble? He caught a career ending beating. People judge Rocky solely based on his awkward style, complexion and size - but never his ability

and by the way, while you might feel like you have a point about “not seeing all the footage” in regards to the accuracy of my statements. However, in any scenario where you pit an old fighter vs a new fighter is going to be a billion intangibles that you will have never seen before. So it’s always going to be speculation based off what we have seen and heard. You don’t make a point here.

you are nitpicking by saying “oh you haven’t seen this fight we can look at the score cards”.

sure, but I have seen the Louis vs Marciano fight - and Marciano was dominating from the opening bell. The scorecards were bull****. We can see this fight so I don’t really care what quotes you dig up.

In what we have seen of the Charles fight, I don’t see any moment where Charles is winning. His punches have absolutely no effect on Marciano, and every-time Marciano connects Charles legs sag.

this opinion I am gathering is just from watching him fight and its an opinion I have formed recently.

If your agenda is just to stop fanboyism then you are wasting your time, I am here to discuss boxing. Your supporting evidence isn’t the strongest either as we have said. So while you calling me a fanboy how would you like it if I turned around and labelled you as just a hater?

[Ivich]

The reason I have said all of Marcianos fights are one sided survival missions is because outside of the knockdowns, I have never actually seen Marciano look like he was in fear of losing. You can just tell. He's on a mission to destroy the other guy and the other guy is just trying to survive. There are statements out there saying Marciano struggled with guys like ****ell gave him trouble. What fight are they watching? Because its not a first round Ko he somehow gave Rocky trouble? He caught a career ending beating. People judge Rocky solely based on his awkward style, complexion and size - but never his ability

and by the way, while you might feel like you have a point about �¢����not seeing all the footage�¢���� in regards to the accuracy of my statements. However, in any scenario where you pit an old fighter vs a new fighter is going to be a billion intangibles that you will have never seen before. So it�¢����s always going to be speculation based off what we have seen and heard. You don�¢����t make a point here.

you are nitpicking by saying �¢����oh you haven�¢����t seen this fight we can look at the score cards�¢����.

sure, but I have seen the Louis vs Marciano fight - and Marciano was dominating from the opening bell. The scorecards were bull****. We can see this fight so I don�¢����t really care what quotes you dig up.

In what we have seen of the Charles fight, I don�¢����t see any moment where Charles is winning. His punches have absolutely no effect on Marciano, and every-time Marciano connects Charles legs sag.

this opinion I am gathering is just from watching him fight and its an opinion I have formed recently.

If your agenda is just to stop fanboyism then you are wasting your time, I am here to discuss boxing. Your supporting evidence isn�t the strongest either as we have said. So while you calling me a fanboy how would you like it if I turned around and labelled you as just a hater?

Pointing out that you have labelled fights you have never seen as one sided survivals,isn't nit picking its stating the truth.

Pointing out that you do NOT know how those fights went,because you have NOT SEEN THEM, is NOT nit picking it's pure logic!

You can call me what you like, many,many Marciano fan boys have labelled me a hater.despite the fact that I have often said he was a great fighter and a fine champion.
What he wasn't , is ever tested against class , modern sized, big punching heavyweights in their primes.

You don't really care what quotes I dig up,but you are happy to accept and quote ones YOU have found!
Bottom line mate.

There is no logic or sense to your argument.
You have no answer to facts presented to you that do not jive with your worshipping agenda and so you dismiss them out of hand.

I have no agenda here on any subject ,you are perfectly entitled to worship any fighter you wish,just do not expect the rest of us to form a line behind you!
I think we are now done.