Let’s get this straight about the Ali-Marciano comp fight

[QueensburyRules]

I just want add something to your remark about Louis' 2 1/2 years of inactivity.

If you include his exhibition fights in 1944 and 1945 that number is correct.

But if you count actual competitive fights, the kind where you have to get physically ready for, (not use to get you ready with [exhibitions]), and the kind of fight that you have to measure up to mentally as well, Louis actually goes from March 1942 (Simon) to June 1946 (Conn). A whopping 51 months (or four years and three months) between competitive fights. That is an insanely long time not to fight and try to come back from.

Only Jeffries had a longer lay-off and he didn't do so well.

P.S. While Boxrec claims the 1944 Johnny Davis fight as a title bout, anyone who knows prize fighting, knows it wasn't.

- - Scheduled as an exhibition, the infantile NY Commish made it into a title fight that counts on Louis record through no fault of his own.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Scheduled as an exhibition, the infantile NY Commish made it into a title fight that counts on Louis record through no fault of his own.

I believe Johnny Davis was as offended as Louis was, by the last minute screw job.

The two stared at each other for the first 20 seconds, then Louis finally threw one right hand; Davis hit the canvas and didn't get up for a solid minute.

I think Johnny Davis tanked out of respect for Louis and was thumbing his nose at the NYSAC.

[Ivich]

This doesnâÃÂÃÂt matter though. I have studied this fight and all of Marcianos fights, they are all one sided survival missions that we can watch with our own eyes. If the fights were 20 rounds nobody beats rock.

the scorecards were bull**** if they had the fight close.

you wanna talk about Marcianos cut eye, well talk about Louis being knocked into a coma as well.

Louis was not ",knocked into a coma." do stop with the hyperbole!
You have studied this fight?
Do you think you are the only one who has?
The 1st Walcott,1st Charles,Moore fights were not."one sided survival missions" at all.

[them_apples]

Louis was not ",knocked into a coma." do stop with the hyperbole!
You have studied this fight?
Do you think you are the only one who has?
The 1st Walcott,1st Charles,Moore fights were not."one sided survival missions" at all.

Yes they were. Everything I said is true and Louis got absolutely hammered, the knockout was brutal. Never had Louis been dismantled that bad.

doesn’t matter if other people study it, I see the break downs on youtube and they usually suck and you can tell the dude doing it doesn’t know how to box. They basically just describe what they see, but they don’t know what they are looking at.

I don’t know how to word is any different? But it is what it is.

the ONLY reason Marciano is underated today is because he is a 186 lb white guy. Thats where it ends though. If he was black he would be the greatest of all time. I am guilty of this myself. If you notice I only started talking about the rock last year - I wasn’t always a Rocky fan. I thought he was too slow and just fought smaller heavies who couldn’t take his punch. Thats what I thought, I was wrong though.

then I decided to actually watch his fights and read about him. Massive, massively underrated fighter.

Plenty if great heavies have nothing but praise to say about the guy, Tyson, Ali, Liston etc yet the casuals don’t. And thats why they are casuals. They don’t know why he’s so good. They can’t see what he does and only look for obvious things like fast movements, punches missing and even just aesthetic stuff that has no bearing on ability at all.

the first thing someone who doesn’t know anything about boxing will say is that Rocky was a face first brawler who would be too small to fight today. They are of course totally wrong.

[Ivich]

Yes they were. Everything I said is true and Louis got absolutely hammered, the knockout was brutal. Never had Louis been dismantled that bad.

doesnâÂÂt matter if other people study it, I see the break downs on youtube and they usually suck and you can tell the dude doing it doesnâÂÂt know how to box. They basically just describe what they see, but they donâÂÂt know what they are looking at.

I donâÂÂt know how to word is any different? But it is what it is.

the ONLY reason Marciano is underated today is because he is a 186 lb white guy. Thats where it ends though. If he was black he would be the greatest of all time. I am guilty of this myself. If you notice I only started talking about the rock last year - I wasnâÂÂt always a Rocky fan. I thought he was too slow and just fought smaller heavies who couldnâÂÂt take his punch. Thats what I thought, I was wrong though.

then I decided to actually watch his fights and read about him. Massive, massively underrated fighter.

Plenty if great heavies have nothing but praise to say about the guy, Tyson, Ali, Liston etc yet the casuals donâÂÂt. And thats why they are casuals. They donâÂÂt know why heâÂÂs so good. They canâÂÂt see what he does and only look for obvious things like fast movements, punches missing and even just aesthetic stuff that has no bearing on ability at all.

the first thing someone who doesnâÂÂt know anything about boxing will say is that Rocky was a face first brawler who would be too small to fight today. They are of course totally wrong.

I've been following boxing since I was 10 years old, that's 65 years ago,I started buying fight films in the 60's.
Walcott was ahead on points going into the last round against Marciano, how is that a onesided survival mission?

0:43 ref: Charley Daggert 4-7 Zach Clayton 4-8 Pete Tomasco 5-7 All in favour of Walcott!

The first Lastarza fight could have gone either way.Here are the scorecards.
ref: Jack Watson 5-5 Artie Aidala 4-5 Arthur Schwartz 5-4 Onesided?


As could the first Lowry fight have.
Here is a report of the fight.

Michael J. Thomas of the Providence Journal wrote, "Marciano did not win the fight. This reporter gave it to Lowry, six rounds to four.”

The crowd of 3,696 booed the decision and some wondered if Lowry had thrown the fight. "There were some questions as to whether Lowry, who had come close to knocking out Marciano in the second, third and fourth rounds, deliberately bogged down in his attack after the fourth stanza," Thomas wrote. "Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth. He went into a shell and only occasionally landed power shots. He seemed to be carrying Marciano."

In his book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of His Times, Russell Sullivan wrote the following: "It was Lowry, not Marciano, who was on the verge of scoring an early knockout, stinging Marciano with two terrific rights in the first round and then rocking him with two mighty uppercuts in the second. By the fourth, a staggered Marciano seemed just one punch away from being knocked out. But then, inexplicably, Lowry stopped fighting and retreated into a shell despite warnings from the referee to open up and a cascade of boos from the crowd. To many, it appeared that Lowry was deliberately carrying Marciano. Was foul play afoot? Was Lowry getting paid to lose? Or was he merely tiring? Whatever the reason, a revived Marciano managed to rally in the late rounds even though many of his punches missed their mark or lacked force. On the basis of his aggressiveness and constant punching, Marciano won a unanimous decision from the judges. Most observers felt, however, that Lowry should have won."One sided?



The first Charles fight.
"He gave me a helluva fight. He deserves a return fight if he wants it."

Thus spoke heavyweight champion Rocky Marciano after his thrilling, come-from-behind 15-round decision over game, undaunted Ezzard Charles in a savage scrap in Yankee Stadium last night.

"I want him again," snarled the battered, unfazed 32-year-old Charles. "I thought I won. I think I came closer to knocking him out than he did me. The next time it will be different."
ref: Ruby Goldstein 8-5 Artie Aidala 9-5 Harold Barnes 8-6Those are not the scorecards of a onesided survival mission.

" I knew Joe was washed up,that's why I didn't want him to take the Marciano fight.".
Manny Seaman, Louis' trainer

p.s. My favourite fighter is Jack Dempsey,a 187lbs white guy.

[them_apples]

I've been following boxing since I was 10 years old, that's 65 years ago,I started buying fight films in the 60's.
Walcott was ahead on points going into the last round against Walcott how is that a onesided survival mission?

0:43 ref: Charley Daggert 4-7 Zach Clayton 4-8 Pete Tomasco 5-7 All in favour of Walcott!

The first Lastarza fight could have gone either way.Here are the scorecards.
ref: Jack Watson 5-5 Artie Aidala 4-5 Arthur Schwartz 5-4 Onesided?


As could the first Lowry fight have.
Here is a report of the fight.

Michael J. Thomas of the Providence Journal wrote, "Marciano did not win the fight. This reporter gave it to Lowry, six rounds to four.”

The crowd of 3,696 booed the decision and some wondered if Lowry had thrown the fight. "There were some questions as to whether Lowry, who had come close to knocking out Marciano in the second, third and fourth rounds, deliberately bogged down in his attack after the fourth stanza," Thomas wrote. "Lowry stopped using his uppercut after the fourth. He went into a shell and only occasionally landed power shots. He seemed to be carrying Marciano."

In his book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of His Times, Russell Sullivan wrote the following: "It was Lowry, not Marciano, who was on the verge of scoring an early knockout, stinging Marciano with two terrific rights in the first round and then rocking him with two mighty uppercuts in the second. By the fourth, a staggered Marciano seemed just one punch away from being knocked out. But then, inexplicably, Lowry stopped fighting and retreated into a shell despite warnings from the referee to open up and a cascade of boos from the crowd. To many, it appeared that Lowry was deliberately carrying Marciano. Was foul play afoot? Was Lowry getting paid to lose? Or was he merely tiring? Whatever the reason, a revived Marciano managed to rally in the late rounds even though many of his punches missed their mark or lacked force. On the basis of his aggressiveness and constant punching, Marciano won a unanimous decision from the judges. Most observers felt, however, that Lowry should have won."One sided?



The first Charles fight.
"He gave me a helluva fight. He deserves a return fight if he wants it."

Thus spoke heavyweight champion Rocky Marciano after his thrilling, come-from-behind 15-round decision over game, undaunted Ezzard Charles in a savage scrap in Yankee Stadium last night.

"I want him again," snarled the battered, unfazed 32-year-old Charles. "I thought I won. I think I came closer to knocking him out than he did me. The next time it will be different."
ref: Ruby Goldstein 8-5 Artie Aidala 9-5 Harold Barnes 8-6Those are not the scorecards of a onesided survival mission.

" I knew Joe was washed up,that's why I didn't want him to take the Marciano fight.".
Manny Seaman, Louis' trainer

p.s. My favourite fighter is Jack Dempsey,a 187lbs white guy.

I’m not dis*****g your historical knowledge.

I am talking from a technical skill standpoint. Those quotes aren’t proving anything. The score cards were rubbish then. All there is too it. They loved Louis.

[Bundana]

Iâm not dis*****g your historical knowledge.

I am talking from a technical skill standpoint. Those quotes arenât proving anything. The score cards were rubbish then. All there is too it. They loved Louis.

Here we go again...

Those who fail to agree with you, do so because they don't understand what they are watching. Only your opinion counts, because the rest of us are too ****** to see the truth. You're the Ken Ham of this forum, basing your opinions on an almost religious belief that you are right - and that the rest of us are too ignorant to be taken seriously!

[Ivich]

Iâm not dis*****g your historical knowledge.

I am talking from a technical skill standpoint. Those quotes arenât proving anything. The score cards were rubbish then. All there is too it. They loved Louis.

All the score cards are rubbish?
Why. because they show the fights I named were fiercely competitive ?

That in one of them Rocky was well behind and in another 2 the fights were so close,they could easily have gone the other way.

Some in the crowd booed the decision against Lastarza and Lowry ,and some papers the next day called them robberies.

They were there ,you were not,why should we take your word over theirs?

Q. How many rounds have you seen of the 1st Lowry fight?

Q.How many rounds have you seen of the 1st Lastarza fight?
NB Have you actually seen ANY ROUNDS of the 2 above fights?

Q. How many rounds have you seen of the 1st Charles fight? NB there are only 5 rounds available of this fight.

What has the widespread affection for Louis to do with these fights,fights in which he was not involved?

Technical skill? I don't think that would be an expression of tactical brilliance for you to use as far as Marciano is concerned!

[them_apples]

All the score cards are rubbish?
Why. because they show the fights I named were fiercely competitive ?

That in one of them Rocky was well behind and in another 2 the fights were so close,they could easily have gone the other way.

Some in the crowd booed the decision against Lastarza and Lowry ,and some papers the next called them robberies.

They were there ,you were not,why should we take your word over theirs?

Q. How many rounds have you seen of the 1st Lowry fight?

Q.How many rounds have you seen of the 1st Lastarza fight?
NB Have you actually seen ANY ROUNDS of the 2 above fights?

Q. How many rounds have you seen of the 1st Charles fight? NB there are only 5 rounds available of this fight.

What has the widespread affection for Louis to do with these fights,fights in which he was not involved?

Technical skill? I don't think that would be an expression of tactical brilliance for you to use as far as Marciano is concerned!

Well, If I haven't seen them than neither have you. the argument works both ways. I am basing it off what I have actually seen. Considering boxing has been riddled with robberies since the beginning of time, it would be foolish to simply go with the scorecards. On the other hand weren't you calling Louis Walcott a Robbery? what if we never got to see the fight? (or parts of it)

[them_apples]

Here we go again...

Those who fail to agree with you, do so because they don't understand what they are watching. Only your opinion counts, because the rest of us are too ****** to see the truth. You're the Ken Ham of this forum, basing your opinions on an almost religious belief that you are right - and that the rest of us are too ignorant to be taken seriously!

It does seem this way because even when overwhelming evidence is presented - certain people will argue for the sake of arguing. To this day you say I don't back any of my claims up. I continuously support my arguments! So how else can I get my point across without sounding insulting?