Did any fighter ever look more spectacular than Roy Jones Jr?

[Willie Pep 229]

Some fighters have career periods (usually a mere several years) where they look unstoppable; unbeatable. Expectation reaches a height where measuring up across an entire career is unlikely.

Tyson; Foreman; Clay; Liston; Baer; Dempsey.

I think Jones is in that group. We expected too much, we expected everything and everything is always too much to expect.

[Rockin']

I was a big fan of Roy. I was in awe of his speed and reflexes and how he toyed with opponents. I was also critical of him not fighting Benn, Michalczewski, Collins, and trying to win a title at Cruiser. I know he didn't want to fight in Europe for fear of being robbed like he was in the Olympics in Korea, but looking back there was an opportunity for him to fight at least once across the pond against one of their best and he didn't. By the time the steroid speculation began circling the sport, I became a bit more suspect of his speed and power. His physique was absolutely shredded, and as he came back down from HW he was never the same fighter again. Fighters who rely upon reflexes and speed have to make adjustments as they get older or they'll end up knocked out. Roy didn't or couldn't make those adjustments and he lost by a string of brutal knockouts towards the end of his career. Nonetheless he was one of the most exciting fighters to watch in real time.

Bret Lally told me about fighting across the pond.

He said that he definitely won the bout but it was given to the home boy.

I don't remember the bout that he was speaking of doe.

Roy played it right................Rockin'

[Willie Pep 229]

I was a big fan of Roy. I was in awe of his speed and reflexes and how he toyed with opponents. I was also critical of him not fighting Benn, Michalczewski, Collins, and trying to win a title at Cruiser. I know he didn't want to fight in Europe for fear of being robbed like he was in the Olympics in Korea, but looking back there was an opportunity for him to fight at least once across the pond against one of their best and he didn't. By the time the steroid speculation began circling the sport, I became a bit more suspect of his speed and power. His physique was absolutely shredded, and as he came back down from HW he was never the same fighter again. Fighters who rely upon reflexes and speed have to make adjustments as they get older or they'll end up knocked out. Roy didn't or couldn't make those adjustments and he lost by a string of brutal knockouts towards the end of his career. Nonetheless he was one of the most exciting fighters to watch in real time.

I know it is very unpopular to say, but some do say, that the Jones' robbery in 1988 was predicated on the Korean belief that their guy, Chun Chil-sung got jobbed against Pernell Whitaker in Los Angles (1984).

I am not saying Jones wasn't a victim, he was, but the Korean anger wasn't directed against him, but the USA.

From the Korean POV it was one host nation taking unfair advantage over another 'host nation' they believed screwed them in '84.

We tend to only see other's *****. I think we call it Patriotism.

[Slugfester]

[QUOTE=BKM-;n32137374]

I agree in spirit, but not fully.

To be fair to Roy Jones Jr, what he did was very skillful. As an example, a huge contrast of his prime and post-prime was his defense. In his prime he relied on springy, powerful legs to move side to side. Opponents just couldn't trap him and get to him. This takes a tremendous amount of footwork, ring IQ and generalship. At the same time it takes an insane amount of gifted talent as well. Not many boxers had legs like Jones Jr.

So when he got old he couldn't use the legs anymore so what could he really do? Back on the ropes, cover up while opponents would pound him. So you're correct in a sense. His offense too, powered by freakish genetics where he's exploding with combo's from the craziest angles. Obviously not something you can keep up at an advanced age, but it was quite skilled and technical when he could do it.[/Q


Let me try a different word: Fundamentals. Strange as it is, Roy's gun rack was lacking certain fundamentals. This is doubly ***** because his daddy was accomplished enough to have fought Hagler once. But maybe his daddy was a big contributor to that, since I believe Roy resented his daddy. Maybe he rejected a lot of what his daddy told him (1) because he resented him (2) because he found out as a youngster he could outclass the others without a jab, for instance. He did not totally eschew the jab, but it was almost absent. The most I ever saw him use it was Hopkins 1 by far. Coming into the later part of your career without a good jab may not be such a good idea.

Another question is did he know anything about the art of clinching? I watched many of his fights in the day and I remember very few clinches. He didn't fight that way; he didn't need to. But as an older fighter with legs half gone you better know how to clinch, and add to that some in-fighting, fighting off the ropes, etc. Some aspects of the normal evolution of a fighter's game did not occur in Roy's career because they were never stimulated to, as no opponent required those aspects to overcome.

I think Kara said here that the ATG discussions wouldn't be the same if Roy had simply retired after Ruiz. Tarver was probably not a good guy to fight right after dropping down. Tarver and those knockouts at the end of his career ruined his legacy. He would have been considered near the top of P4P, unavoidably.

Instead of playing basketball and rapping he should have been in the gym practicing the fundamentals he was going to need as a maturing fighter..

[beautyistruth]

I was a big fan of Roy. I was in awe of his speed and reflexes and how he toyed with opponents. I was also critical of him not fighting Benn, Michalczewski, Collins, and trying to win a title at Cruiser. I know he didn't want to fight in Europe for fear of being robbed like he was in the Olympics in Korea, but looking back there was an opportunity for him to fight at least once across the pond against one of their best and he didn't. By the time the steroid speculation began circling the sport, I became a bit more suspect of his speed and power. His physique was absolutely shredded, and as he came back down from HW he was never the same fighter again. Fighters who rely upon reflexes and speed have to make adjustments as they get older or they'll end up knocked out. Roy didn't or couldn't make those adjustments and he lost by a string of brutal knockouts towards the end of his career. Nonetheless he was one of the most exciting fighters to watch in real time.

Let's give Tarver more credit. Roy showed reluctance to fight Tarver for years, even forced the IBF to force Tarver to fight a SECOND eliminator which he lost to Harding when he was already mandatory challenger. Roy was always spooked by Tarver, the drop down from hwt had nothing to do with Tarver psyching Roy out and knocking him out in the rematch which Roy and HBO tried to avoid.

[The D3vil]

No,

Next question

[kara]

he didnt cut 25 pounds of muscle, he was 193 for Ruiz and he weighed in full clothes. IDK why people keep parroting 25 pounds all these years later. he barely gained any weight, he just didnt have to do the cutting process.

From what Jones would tell people, he walked around only a few pounds above 175.

[QueensburyRules]

Yup

But I reckon Pac's an overrated cry baby who was given more gifts than any other boxer I've ever known about and built an entire career out of being a Money stopper then didn't even do a very good job against Mayweather and tried to cry his way out of it.

Trained by a parky prick who never did very well and admitted he's more of a friend holding gloves and hanging out than a trainer willing to push his athletes.

Bops around like he's doing kung fu only for it to lead to a deficit and force him to box back to control.

I don't hate on the talent, with a real trainer, and fair judging Pac probably would have been what people claimed he is. Sad, he ain't **** and I doubt history will hold up his bull****.

8 weight divisions was promotional nonsense for the casuals, y'all know it, and when he becomes a historical figure there is only one way to tell that story.

- - Not only 8 divs sonny, but fought, whooped, and KOed more Ring p4pers than any in Ring history that started with Tyson in 1989. P4P rated well over 10 decades consecutively, another Ring P4P record, and whom ever in 2nd might as well be in fifth place the margin is so great.

TBE TUE l'l floydy admittedly has the best, perhaps the only Commish 2 week backed dated TUE combined with altered official scorecards to win by running from a dwarf only trying to him his sushi that he ordered...

OK, SissyBoys wif crack daddy trainers is U forte...

[Eff Pandas]

What I meant was Toney by the time he fought Charles Williams (watch the fight again) & RJJ, was done a 168, and only had success at 175 with lesser opposition, losing twice to Montell Griffin. It wasn't his age...he was young. It was his lack of discipline. Toney DID have some success at CW and HW, but Jirov and Holyfield were 9 years later after RJJ, and Holyfield was getting old. I actually sent Holyfield an email after that fight telling him to retire, I told him I didn't want to see him get hurt anymore. His trainer threw in the towel...it was very sad. He got beaten a year earlier by a blown up mw in Chris Byrd.

When Calzaghe fought RJJ he was only 3 years younger than Roy himself, and retired after the fight. Hopkins at 43 was still a force to be reckoned with...he was on a whole different level having beaten Tarver 2 years earlier, Winky Wright the year after, and Kelly Pavlik 6 months after the Calzaghe fight...he may have been 43, but he wasn't really terribly far from prime to his credit. Hopkins was way better at 35 than he was at 28...he was a late bloomer.

Sorry, but RJJ had a few names missing from his resume that would have made the difference...

Michalczewski WBA WBO IBF Ring Magazine Linear Lt Heavyweight Champion, Graciano Rochigiani WBC Lt Heavyweight Champion, Vassiliy Jirov, Michael Nunn, Gerald McClellan, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Steve Collins...to name a few.

You and I tend to disagree on a lot of things...this is just another one of those things.

And Joe had damn near every name in their prime or hell even outside of their prime missing from his resume. If Joe didn't fight an ancient RJJ or almost lose to Old Bhop no one would or could even talk about him as much of anything.

Sometimes I think this is the most insane place to talk about boxing when we are talking like RJJ vs Joe in spectacular-ness, overall accomplishments &/or talent is even a reasonable debate to have.

[QueensburyRules]

And Joe had damn near every name in their prime or hell even outside of their prime missing from his resume. If Joe didn't fight an ancient RJJ or almost lose to Old Bhop no one would or could even talk about him as much of anything.

Sometimes I think this is the most insane place to talk about boxing when we are talking like RJJ vs Joe in spectacular-ness, overall accomplishments &/or talent is even a reasonable debate to have.

- - SuperJoe as soon as he was free of Warren jumped the pond to humiliate Poppy crawling bawling on the canvas that he made a career of.

Poppy the Ring champ, so Roy tried and got sliced up like a thanksgiving turkey.

Ok, some U boys like sissies…a good era to like sissies…