Joe Fraizer's body

[Dr. Z]

Joe Frazier's tale of the tape.

When I look at Frazier he had a smallish neck, narrow shoulders, and short small arms that were weak ( biceps and wrist ). He could not clinch worth darn, or push off. He was easy to bull around the ring.

BUT

He has a good lower body with big springy and strong legs which allowed him to get inside of the slower footed fighters who lacked big time power and made his relatively short reach less of an issue. Here he is explosive and had plenty of conditioning ( when he was in shape ) to keep pressing the issue in the later rounds, unlike Tyson.

Legendary trainer Ed Futch said that Frazier had the worst body type of all the heavyweight champions.

Thoughts?

[BKM-]

Is this based on Foreman man handling him? Because that's not a good indication, Foreman may have been the strongest grappler p4p in boxing history.

Ali was a very strong grappler as well and Frazier did well against him in the clinch, I did not see such a massive weakness there from Frazier.

To be honest with you, I always had this impression of Mike Tyson. Built like a tank, but an extremely weak grappler who got pushed back by 99% of his opponents. Looks could be deceiving.

[The Defecator]

Is this based on Foreman man handling him? Because that's not a good indication, Foreman may have been the strongest grappler p4p in boxing history.

Ali was a very strong grappler as well and Frazier did well against him in the clinch, I did not see such a massive weakness there from Frazier.

To be honest with you, I always had this impression of Mike Tyson. Built like a tank, but an extremely weak grappler who got pushed back by 99% of his opponents. Looks could be deceiving.

With Tyson it was more a case that he really didn't want to be in close. He was more comfortable fighting from mid-range where he could explode into his punches with maximum leverage. He really couldn't do that when he was in close where he was really only dangerous with the uppercut (which was only his third best punch). He wasn't a good infighter in any case and if an opponent wanted to push him back out to mid-range, he was more than happy to let him do so.

[kara]

Joe Frazier's tale of the tape.

When I look at Frazier he had a smallish neck, narrow shoulders, and short small arms that were weak ( biceps and wrist ). He could not clinch worth darn, or push off. He was easy to bull around the ring.

BUT

He has a good lower body with big springy and strong legs which allowed him to get inside of the slower footed fighters who lacked big time power and made his relatively short reach less of an issue. Here he is explosive and had plenty of conditioning ( when he was in shape ) to keep pressing the issue in the later rounds, unlike Tyson.

Legendary trainer Ed Futch said that Frazier had the worst body type of all the heavyweight champions.

Thoughts?

Canelo's body reminds me of Frazier and Tyson

[Dr. Z]

Is this based on Foreman man handling him? Because that's not a good indication, Foreman may have been the strongest grappler p4p in boxing history.

Ali was a very strong grappler as well and Frazier did well against him in the clinch, I did not see such a massive weakness there from Frazier.

To be honest with you, I always had this impression of Mike Tyson. Built like a tank, but an extremely weak grappler who got pushed back by 99% of his opponents. Looks could be deceiving.

Oh Ali had his way with Frazier clinching and mauling him too. Really anyone bigger than him did when they were clinching.

[QueensburyRules]

Canelo's body reminds me of Frazier and Tyson

- - Cannot think of any more disparate physio types not to mention personalities and styles.

[billeau2]

Joe Frazier's tale of the tape.

When I look at Frazier he had a smallish neck, narrow shoulders, and short small arms that were weak ( biceps and wrist ). He could not clinch worth darn, or push off. He was easy to bull around the ring.

BUT

He has a good lower body with big springy and strong legs which allowed him to get inside of the slower footed fighters who lacked big time power and made his relatively short reach less of an issue. Here he is explosive and had plenty of conditioning ( when he was in shape ) to keep pressing the issue in the later rounds, unlike Tyson.

Legendary trainer Ed Futch said that Frazier had the worst body type of all the heavyweight champions.

Thoughts?

Boxing is not a sport that demands a physique that is obviously exemplory. Even fighters with fast feet, like Leroy Jones, often look out of shape. This is indeed because most of the conditioning involves the legs and core.

[billeau2]

With Tyson it was more a case that he really didn't want to be in close. He was more comfortable fighting from mid-range where he could explode into his punches with maximum leverage. He really couldn't do that when he was in close where he was really only dangerous with the uppercut (which was only his third best punch). He wasn't a good infighter in any case and if an opponent wanted to push him back out to mid-range, he was more than happy to let him do so.

Tyson did not have to deal with fighters coming to close range because of ignorance. Then Holyfield was trained by Turner to push and unbalance Tyson by pushing on him and rendering his balance bad, thus taking the steam off his shots.

[BKM-]

Oh Ali had his way with Frazier clinching and mauling him too. Really anyone bigger than him did when they were clinching.

I'm not sure we were watching the same fights. Frazier gave Ali the worst maulings in his life and most of it happened on the inside where you claim Frazier was very weak.

The only thing Ali gave him trouble with was pulling his head down which was an illegal move but unfortunately for Clay, doing that played right into Smoking Joe's style. Lowering his center of gravity like that usually ended up with Joe exploding upwards with a left hook.

[BKM-]

With Tyson it was more a case that he really didn't want to be in close. He was more comfortable fighting from mid-range where he could explode into his punches with maximum leverage. He really couldn't do that when he was in close where he was really only dangerous with the uppercut (which was only his third best punch). He wasn't a good infighter in any case and if an opponent wanted to push him back out to mid-range, he was more than happy to let him do so.

You're making it sound like this was part of his plan. It didn't do him any good to be outgrappled by every single opponent he faced. He should have trained Greco Roman leverage.

I agree mid-range was his sweet spot. But instead of 'letting' his opponents push him around into spots they wanted him in, the best thing would have been for him to outgrapple them and put them into spots he wanted them to be in. He was too weak to do that.

It lead to his demise against Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis. Evander especially, there was such a massive physical strength difference it was like man vs boy in there.