Boxing's Lost Arts?

[billeau2]

This video clearly shows high master Benny Leonard using the open glove parry right from the opening bell. You can also see how it works as a subtle feint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrC2TemHi8I

Nice source! Yes Leonard uses the parry, including as a feint... Roy Jones another one! Actually this whole technical understanding grows many branches! I am going to start a thread shortly... But in the meantime? Some fighters prefer to keep the hands with the palms facing outward, which is another old boxing trait... a lot of punchers! Mike Weaver fought this way at least against John Tate...

It allows one to use the hands more naturally... keeping your palms outward allows for more parrying, a nice quick counter off the parry and a very quick repositioning allowing a puncher to let loose.

[QueensburyRules]

it depends... technically if all remain constant, the glove has mass and that translates as more force... But the connection is the issue. If I take a 30 amp line of electricity and it is shorting, versus a 15 amp line plugged in and working... When the structural elements of the hand directly transfer mass, there is much less loss of force, and the force transmitts across the skeletal structure from the ground up with no leaks...

Yeah I like to use bare knuckle as well...

- - Even using an old tube sock for handwraps on my Bag gloves, I was pounding that 70 lb bag hung under a 500 yr old oak in my backyard all over. I got tired of making new canvas sleeves every year not to mention having to run out in a rain storm to haul into the garage, so it's retired though maybe next spring it'll make a comeback.

Guess what I need to add is the accuracy of the punch on the vulnerable target is as important as power.

[billeau2]

- - Even using an old tube sock for handwraps on my Bag gloves, I was pounding that 70 lb bag hung under a 500 yr old oak in my backyard all over. I got tired of making new canvas sleeves every year not to mention having to run out in a rain storm to haul into the garage, so it's retired though maybe next spring it'll make a comeback.

Guess what I need to add is the accuracy of the punch on the vulnerable target is as important as power.

Want a tip? Seriously this is something that I have had people do for years... It really ups your power and it helps with accuracy as well.

You know the bags that rice comes in when you buy a large quantity? You want either a bag made out of hemp, or twine, or a bag woven out of some material, and it should be at least 5 pound size, to about 10 pound size... Too big after 10 pounds! Fill bag with dried beans, peas, so there is just a bit of give... You want the bag to press in slightly with fist pressure just pushing in. Now, keeping that slight indent, tape bag up, duct tape is fine, cloth tape is good also. tape up so the bag is covered with the tape. Don't make the bag too hard, or you lose a lot of the characteristics that make the bag like a body... Don't make the bag too soft, it just won't work at all, you need a density that mimicks the way our bodies muscle and fat protect our bones.

You then want to make a tape hook on each corner of the bag... Just make a loop and tape... however you want to do it, you just want a way to put bag up. Now, you can use bungees or something else, and affix bag to tree. Just put on the tree, you do not hang this bag, you wrap it on the tree surface.

This surface area has the following benefits:

With the slight give it allows you to hit maximum force, and not cause impaction on the joints. In fact, it tends to condition the hand muscles that make the fist. The bag lets you practice accuracy to a point, as you can pinpoint parts of the hand to hit, etc. I like to sometimes hit with just the index knuckle, etc. The bag is also similar in some respects to the body. So your subconsciously learning to connect your hand bones to the bone areas of the opponent, through the skin and fat.

You can also practice finger strikes, shuto chops... some people kick the bag as well.

One word of caution: Be careful playing around with others after hitting a while... You get a lot of power quickly if you use the body properly... I had a bad accident and broke ribs once... Just be aware. You know you are hitting correctly when you feel your strike settle with a thump and not a slapping sound.

[kara]

New lost art.......networks showing fights.

[QueensburyRules]

Want a tip? Seriously this is something that I have had people do for years... It really ups your power and it helps with accuracy as well.

You know the bags that rice comes in when you buy a large quantity? You want either a bag made out of hemp, or twine, or a bag woven out of some material, and it should be at least 5 pound size, to about 10 pound size... Too big after 10 pounds! Fill bag with dried beans, peas, so there is just a bit of give... You want the bag to press in slightly with fist pressure just pushing in. Now, keeping that slight indent, tape bag up, duct tape is fine, cloth tape is good also. tape up so the bag is covered with the tape. Don't make the bag too hard, or you lose a lot of the characteristics that make the bag like a body... Don't make the bag too soft, it just won't work at all, you need a density that mimicks the way our bodies muscle and fat protect our bones.

You then want to make a tape hook on each corner of the bag... Just make a loop and tape... however you want to do it, you just want a way to put bag up. Now, you can use bungees or something else, and affix bag to tree. Just put on the tree, you do not hang this bag, you wrap it on the tree surface.

This surface area has the following benefits:

With the slight give it allows you to hit maximum force, and not cause impaction on the joints. In fact, it tends to condition the hand muscles that make the fist. The bag lets you practice accuracy to a point, as you can pinpoint parts of the hand to hit, etc. I like to sometimes hit with just the index knuckle, etc. The bag is also similar in some respects to the body. So your subconsciously learning to connect your hand bones to the bone areas of the opponent, through the skin and fat.

You can also practice finger strikes, shuto chops... some people kick the bag as well.

One word of caution: Be careful playing around with others after hitting a while... You get a lot of power quickly if you use the body properly... I had a bad accident and broke ribs once... Just be aware. You know you are hitting correctly when you feel your strike settle with a thump and not a slapping sound.

- - Offered to spar some threatening forum gas bags, but they backed out.

I had an ancient feather pillow from childhood. The striped canvas was still solid, so I bought some white canvas shopping bags in bulk, stuffed it in, ducted it tight, then squeezed it into another bag to hang under my oak. I use it for snap, speed and control because it's an oblong shape with angles. When combined with the big bag, back when I could run I'd make a hour or more workout out of everything in the 100 degree heat of the summer. Hosing off in the backyard with cold tap water sufficed for my heavenly shower.

I didn't just hit though, ie I was also working on short range movement of body and feet for a natural feel.

An elder Korean Vet was visiting my preacher man next door in his double garage office came running out yelling one day when I started up on the big bag. He was greatly relieved because he thought I was machine gun fire moving in on him. My best day was 28 rounds with no breaks, ie 1hr:24min straight. I wasn't tired in the least, but felt like that was plenty enough to put the bag up at a 45 degree angle to keep it elevated for the last minute.

Needless to say I was shocked to see I had gone that long and had to cut back my sparring before my arms fell off!

[them_apples]

The only down side to palms out in the stance is the tendancy to bring the elbows out, making straight punches harder to pull off properly. Thats why often it is just the right hand in front of the face with the palm out to catch both the right hand and parry the left. The left hand doesn’t parry, it sits below the right hand since they are both on the centerline not beside eachother. The left hand can turn in allowing for a straighter, snappier left jab much like whipping a wet towel

[QueensburyRules]

- - Did tubby Lar who started skinny have the best thumbs in the biz?

Top Thumbs I say...

[Slugfester]

The only down side to palms out in the stance is the tendancy to bring the elbows out, making straight punches harder to pull off properly. Thats why often it is just the right hand in front of the face with the palm out to catch both the right hand and parry the left. The left hand doesnâÃÂÃÂt parry, it sits below the right hand since they are both on the centerline not beside eachother. The left hand can turn in allowing for a straighter, snappier left jab much like whipping a wet towel

For a fact they do not do it much with the left hand, though I have seen it happen.

[kara]

Properly training for fights, as Fury just showed us!

[Slugfester]

When combined with the big bag, back when I could run I'd make a hour or more workout out of everything in the 100 degree heat of the summer.

You cannot run now? Why is that?

I guarantee that a not insignificant percentage of people here have done similar backyard training. I know I did. I once had a poster of Ray Robinson on my bedroom wall, taken from some boxing magazine's centerfold. Robinson's signature was beneath it. I added, "Good luck on your way to the championship, kid."

In high school a kid wanted to fight me over an erroneous grudge. The PE instructor had seen some of this encounter, and proposed we put on the gloves during PE class. Even though this kid was a pretty fair street fighter, he was such easy work with the gloves on, I felt sorry for him and took it easy. I had a street fight with a kid who was a monster street fighter. We had a fight in the theater parking lot, he was beating my ass, because he was an all-state wrestler, but the fight was broken up before the job was finished.

The next day a PE instructor suggested the gloves again, but the wrestler refused because he had already seen how easily I had handled the other guy. He knew his only advantage was on the ground because I was not a wrestler--I always hated wrestling when we were sometimes forced to do it in PE class.

So a little boxing training goes a long way when boxing civilians.