Did Monzon retire to avoid Hagler?

[Dr. Z]

Jorge Fernandez was NO ham & egger.

100 plus wins. 84 KOs

Lost a close but UD in September 1966 to Monzon. Then went 2-0-1 and got a rematch in June 1967.

But by then, I guess, he was finished (his subsequent record suggests he was) or Monzon was peaking, or both.

The 1967 scoring looks like Monzon pitched a shut-out, dominating the fight.

No clue regarding any KDs but if it was so, so what? Fernandez had 84 KOs. The man could obviously ****.

IF Monzon went down and got up to win, that only makes him greater, not less.



P.S. In my personal investigation regarding the question of journeymen and interrupted retirements.

Jorge Fernandez looks to have retired after losing to Monzon in 1967 and then makes a failed comeback in 1972-1973.

Looks like a journeyman who COULDN'T stay retired.

Jesse Ferguson - Yes
Jorge Fernandez - No

Have you ever seem the 5'7'" Fernandez on film?

[Willie Pep 229]

Have you ever seem the 5'7'" Fernandez on film?

Didn't know he existed until you an Ivch starting arguing

Does it matter if I have? Me seeing him is not actually relevant to anything I said nor will it decide if there was a KD or not.

Are you giving me the "if you haven't seen him on film, you can't have an opinion" complaint?

[Ivich]

Jorge Fernandez was NO ham & egger.

100 plus wins. 84 KOs

Lost a close but UD in September 1966 to Monzon. Then went 2-0-1 and got a rematch in June 1967.

But by then, I guess, he was finished (his subsequent record suggests he was) or Monzon was peaking, or both.

The 1967 scoring looks like Monzon pitched a shut-out, dominating the fight.

No clue regarding any KDs but if it was so, so what? Fernandez had 84 KOs. The man could obviously ****.

IF Monzon went down and got up to win, that only makes him greater, not less.



P.S. In my personal investigation regarding the question of journeymen and interrupted retirements.

Jorge Fernandez looks to have retired after losing to Monzon in 1967 and then makes a failed comeback in 1972-1973.

Looks like a journeyman who COULDN'T stay retired.

Jesse Ferguson - Yes
Jorge Fernandez - No

He was once the no 8 ranked welterweight.I'd not be surprised if he did drop Monzon,and Ive made a thread on another forum asking for more info about it. Fernandez did come back and win the Spanish middleweight title he was a good fighter.
.Z has been exposed inventing stories again , and that is the crux of the matter.

[Dr. Z]

Didn't know he existed until you an Ivch starting arguing

Does it matter if I have? Me seeing him is not actually relevant to anything I said nor will it decide if there was a KD or not.

Are you giving me the "if you haven't seen him on film, you can't have an opinion" complaint?

No not at all. The guy was best known as a short welter That is what I'm saying.

Here he is in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KPXnh4X4vg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o15E6q8p0sw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m8rL04w548


Isn't you tube great?

[Dr. Z]

He was once the no 8 ranked welterweight.I'd not be surprised if he did drop Monzon,and Ive made a thread on another forum asking for more info about it. Fernandez did come back and win the Spanish middleweight title he was a good fighter.
.Z has been exposed inventing stories again , and that is the crux of the matter.

The crux of the matter is you lying and making stuff up You obviously don't know what happened. Please do report back and admit you don't know what you are talking about.

[Slugfester]

I've just posted the details of both fights, and the fact that Monzon won them.
So you do agree they fought on

3rd Sep 1966 and
10th July 1967

Both fights were won by Monzon?

Yeah. I think it is obvious Z got the date wrong. He may have date dyslexia.

Personally, I doubt that Jorge knocked Monzon down. I went to several sites that were tribute-like, but that event was never mentioned. With Monzon's South American popularity and idolization, such a forgotten knockdown would long since have been dug out of newspaper archives, methinks.

[Ivich]

Yeah. I think it is obvious Z got the date wrong. He may have date dyslexia.

Personally, I doubt that Jorge knocked Monzon down. I went to several sites that were tribute-like, but that event was never mentioned. With Monzon's South American popularity and idolization, such a forgotten knockdown would long since have been dug out of newspaper archives, methinks.

Having gotten the date wrong why did he not just admit it,instead of inventing a story about a mythical fight that he says he read about in an Argentinian newspaper.
No national newspaper is going to be 8 months adrift on a fight ,nor are they going to confuse a national title with a South American one. I've tried to get more info on another site,one poster says Monzon knocked Fernandez down in the 4th round of their first fight but it isn't confirmed.
I've PM'd Richard Murrieta and hopefully he will reply.

DR Z has once again shot himself in the foot on this one.

[Ivich]

No not at all. The guy was best known as a short welter That is what I'm saying.

Here he is in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KPXnh4X4vg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o15E6q8p0sw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m8rL04w548


Isn't you tube great?

Your attempt to minimise Fernandez later career and portray him as just a welter won't wash.
Fernandez won the ;
South American Light Middle weight title.
Argentinian Light Middleweight title.
The Argentinian Middleweight title.
The Spanish Middleweight title.
He won nothing at welterweight.
He is known for his successes at the higher weights.
BTW He was heavier than Monzon in both their fights.

[Ivich]

The crux of the matter is you lying and making stuff up You obviously don't know what happened. Please do report back and admit you don't know what you are talking about.

You have been caught out,**** to rights,and it could not have happened to a more appropriate poster!
Got that "Argentinian newspaper ," link yet? lol

[Slugfester]

Jorge Fernandez was NO ham & egger.

100 plus wins. 84 KOs

Lost a close but UD in September 1966 to Monzon. Then went 2-0-1 and got a rematch in June 1967.

But by then, I guess, he was finished (his subsequent record suggests he was) or Monzon was peaking, or both.

The 1967 scoring looks like Monzon pitched a shut-out, dominating the fight.

No clue regarding any KDs but if it was so, so what? Fernandez had 84 KOs. The man could obviously ****.

IF Monzon went down and got up to win, that only makes him greater, not less.



P.S. In my personal investigation regarding the question of journeymen and interrupted retirements.

Jorge Fernandez looks to have retired after losing to Monzon in 1967 and then makes a failed comeback in 1972-1973.

Looks like a journeyman who COULDN'T stay retired.

Jesse Ferguson - Yes
Jorge Fernandez - No

No, it is important, Willie. If true, it would be a major revelation, not because it has overwhelming significance, but just because it happened, and to straighten out history, which a lot of people consider important. The date of Jan 1 1966 is quite a dark horse by now. But the only thing I am interested in is whether Monzon was ever knocked down by Fernandez.. It is easy to make a mistake on dates or a number while adding and means nothing unless the person shown to be wrong insists on defending a Mickey Mouse error. Z had better stick to the alleged knockdown itself and forget the meaningless ancillaries like dates.