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Its tough! But I do like the "calibre" idea: that a gate keeper is a notch above. But its a real fine distinction... Mercer is a great example of that. I think one more thing occurs to me! the role is relational: So A gatekeeper is a gatekeeper in so far as they are fighting someone coming up, who is a possible rising star. So Mercer fighting Lewis makes him a contender. When Dubois fought Joyce the first time Joyce was imo a gatekeeper. He was a veteran, journeyman who was trying to prevent Dubois ascending...
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I decided I'm old and don't want to change. I find no room in my vocabulary for these new fangled words like gatekeeper.
In my day it was simple I only knew of . . .
Champions
Claimants
Contenders
Journeymen
Ham & Eggers *
Bums
and Tankers.
* actually called "an undercard fighter." E.g. "Forget about him, he's strictly undercard material."
I like 'ham & egger better, more colorful and descriptive, but never actually heard anyone use it except Hollywood.
Has anyone heard "gatekeeper" used by a commentator?Comment
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So there has been real progress imo: The consensus is that a gate keeper is above a journeyman, and functions as a benchmark for fighters that may have the ability to fight as a contender.
I would add, that the position is relational: Consider by analogy how we arrive at a sense of self. We may be "husband", "sibling" etc... all of which adds a layer on who we essentially are. A fighter may assume the role as a gate keeper, and it is part of what defines him as a fighter, though (and I think this is the confusion) this is only part of what defines him as a fighter. Say Bernard Hopkins for example, a perfect fighter, in his twilight years, to assume the role as a gate keeper. But Hopkins was so good at the role that his role as such became secondary to his ascension as a light heavyweight.
So, just as when someone "contends" they are a contender, when someone presents a challenge to an up and commer, if they fufill other aspects of the role, similar to being an excellent journeyman and more... they become a "gate keeper."Comment
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i think i have heard the commentators use that term before as it registered with me immediately i read it.
i couldn't say where as my memory is not that good.
i think as the words symbolise in my mind a tough man on the door like a bouncer who knows how to handle another man through "experience" and that only comes with age.
perhaps they are men whose record is average but they fight less often and have won some big fights in their younger days. that is what the word gatekeeper forms in my mind.
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i was just reading aj's record and there seem to be a few on his record.
https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/659461
dylian white, carlos takam, povetkin. you could make a case for them.
You know in rocky 3 when mickey admits to rocky that his opponents were not set ups but were hand picked to protect his life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONit4ATZmhw this is it
AJ seems to have had a career with lot's of gatekeepers to build him up.Last edited by max baer; 09-28-2023, 07:53 PM.Comment
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A gate keeper is the man that you must get through to get a title shot...............Rockin'
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I agree about the other two, but idk that I'd throw Otto in there YET lol. His career has been defined by his one L to Tyson, but since he lost to such a quality guy thats a very forgivable L imho. Granted he has like 1 or 2 wins worth mentioning at all, outside of him beating Gassiev this weekend, but to me he still feels like a guy I'd classify as a fringe contender than a gate keeper (again YET lol cuz he does feel like that type of guy eventually).Comment
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For full disclosure my basic categories for boxers are:
-Part Time Boxers/Losers: Guys that aren't even fully in boxing &/or are just guys brought in as B sides at the lowest levels of the sport, their careers are usually short &/or with very bad win %'s, with tighter rules these 4-30 type guys have been weeded out more in the US, but in the UK they in full force still with several guys with 50 to 100 or more L's
-Rookies: Guys who are a year or two into the pro sport or have less than 10 fights usually & might be 7-0 or 6-2, but not really defined as a prospect or journeyman yet, they might not even be fully into boxing yet to expect them to become either
-Prospects: Guys who still have a pretty record &/or hype & some avg to exceptional level of talent/potential
-Journeymen: Guys who beat C & below level guys (top 100 or lower guys) almost all day, might beat B level guys (top 50 guys) here & there & almost 100% always lose to A level guys (top 15 guys/top prospects) & there records usually show this with them going 18-1 then 6-5 then 0-3 vs each higher level guy
-Gatekeeper: Guys who guard prospects & higher level journeymen from becoming a fringe or legit contender, they'll usually have prettier records than journeyman
-Fringe Contender: Guys who are ranked by an ABC group
-Contender/World Class: Guys who are ranked in the top 10/top 15 by an indie source like TBRB, Ring or Boxrec
-Belt Holder: Guys who have won one of the 4 primary ABC group belts
-#1/The Man/The Champion: Guys who are the clear or consensus #1 guy in their division
Might have a category or two I'm forgetting/overlooking but in general I'd put a guy into one of these categories.Comment
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