Carlos Monzon. How great was he? Feel free to post a fight.

[billeau2]

During the Emile Griffith fight, satelite broadcast from Argentina, Howard Cosell offered the following assesment of Monzon: "overrated, with a good right hand." Meanwhile others put Monzon on a short list for the greatest middle weights. People say he used his size, others point out that Monzon had a distinct method of operating in the ring, one that was deceptively technically sound.

There is not much contraversy these days: Most would say Monzon was one of the greatest fighters. Yet when we start to compare him to other great middle weights, most notably Hagler, opinions seem to differ widely about what such a fight would look like. This even goes for fighters that moved up like Leonard and Duran.

I am going to post the Emile Griffith fight, Griffith, another incredible fighter, one who many think was cursed and never fought as intensely after the death of parot in the ring, gave a great account of himself and Monzon did classic Monzon, hence I think this is a good fight to look at, at least initially.

https://********/nOzWKUXtRNA

The second fight

https://********/D_4bitZ3oCo

Monzon fought Benny Briscoe two times as well, Brisco was a great body puncher, and a strong opponent. Lets throw that in here as well.

https://********/wdHDPUCAmvs

The second fight
https://********/oKzE5eg3mkM

I will discuss my opinions about Monzon, but want to not prejudice the thread just yet.

[Slugfester]

I don't want to prejudice the thread either. The level of an ATGs competition is always one of my primary standards. I have watched all of those fights before. Now I will probably watch some of them again.

[IronDanHamza]

He’s at the very least in the discussion for the greatest MW of all time. I don’t think that’s debatable.

[QueensburyRules]

During the Emile Griffith fight, satelite broadcast from Argentina, Howard Cosell offered the following assesment of Monzon: "overrated, with a good right hand." Meanwhile others put Monzon on a short list for the greatest middle weights. People say he used his size, others point out that Monzon had a distinct method of operating in the ring, one that was deceptively technically sound.

There is not much contraversy these days: Most would say Monzon was one of the greatest fighters. Yet when we start to compare him to other great middle weights, most notably Hagler, opinions seem to differ widely about what such a fight would look like. This even goes for fighters that moved up like Leonard and Duran.

I am going to post the Emile Griffith fight, Griffith, another incredible fighter, one who many think was cursed and never fought as intensely after the death of parot in the ring, gave a great account of himself and Monzon did classic Monzon, hence I think this is a good fight to look at, at least initially.

https://********/nOzWKUXtRNA

The second fight

https://********/D_4bitZ3oCo

Monzon fought Benny Briscoe two times as well, Brisco was a great body puncher, and a strong opponent. Lets throw that in here as well.

https://********/wdHDPUCAmvs

The second fight
https://********/oKzE5eg3mkM

I will discuss my opinions about Monzon, but want to not prejudice the thread just yet.

- - Marv a contemporary of Monzon with near 5 years overlap as I recall.

When Monzon retired, Marv still weren’t ready.

Yer Welcome…

[tonysoprano]

I think Hagler could have beaten him. But he’s one the top 5 MW’s of all time, no question.

And outside the ring probably the toughest of the lot. A dangerous man.

[Willie Pep 229]

I think Hagler could have beaten him. But he’s one the top 5 MW’s of all time, no question.

And outside the ring probably the toughest of the lot. A dangerous man.

All psychopaths are dangerous. Lol

There are rumors-- rumors - that they (his backers) had to pay off **** victims even before he became champion.

Ray Arcel once stated that Monzon was the only fighter (and remember Arcel handled Duran for a while) he ever saw who actually enjoyed fighting. He seemed to feed off violence.

P.S. He use to change smoke cigarettes while doing his road work. Yet never seemed to fade in the late rounds. Strange man.

[Ivich]

During the Emile Griffith fight, satelite broadcast from Argentina, Howard Cosell offered the following assesment of Monzon: "overrated, with a good right hand." Meanwhile others put Monzon on a short list for the greatest middle weights. People say he used his size, others point out that Monzon had a distinct method of operating in the ring, one that was deceptively technically sound.

There is not much contraversy these days: Most would say Monzon was one of the greatest fighters. Yet when we start to compare him to other great middle weights, most notably Hagler, opinions seem to differ widely about what such a fight would look like. This even goes for fighters that moved up like Leonard and Duran.

I am going to post the Emile Griffith fight, Griffith, another incredible fighter, one who many think was cursed and never fought as intensely after the death of parot in the ring, gave a great account of himself and Monzon did classic Monzon, hence I think this is a good fight to look at, at least initially.

https://********/nOzWKUXtRNA

The second fight

https://********/D_4bitZ3oCo

Monzon fought Benny Briscoe two times as well, Brisco was a great body puncher, and a strong opponent. Lets throw that in here as well.

https://********/wdHDPUCAmvs

The second fight
https://********/oKzE5eg3mkM

I will discuss my opinions about Monzon, but want to not prejudice the thread just yet.

In the top 4 all time along with Greb ,Robinson ,and Hagler,Mickey Duff promoter,matchmaker , manager,and an excellent judge of fighters thought he would beat Robinson.

[Slugfester]

One thing for sure, no ATG had the fierce competition they get around here in fantasy matchups. Whose competition was closest to the fantasy world, would you say? Which middleweight champ had the best prime competition of all time. I believe that may have been Hagler. Leonard and Hearns were dead in their primes when he faced them. Mugabi was awful tough and in his prime too I think. I believe Griffith was slightly past it when he faced Monzon. He started fighting in 1959. The amazing thing is he had an 11 fight winning streak before that fight, and a six fight streak after it. He did this a little past it and not at his prime weight. What a fighter! Not sure about Briscoe and some others. Everything is bound to come up.

Speaking of Griffith, his resume could be the most studded ever, outside of perhaps Langford. Like Robinson, he fought world class fighters right out of the gate of his career.

Everyone knows Valdez was real good, but not an ATG. He would never hurt your roster but only build it. When a good deal of a man's early fights take place in boxing backwaters there is always a large unknown. But what Monzon did to real competition speaks for itself. He could never be less than 5th among AT middleweights IMO opinion as of now.

[Willie Pep 229]

In the top 4 all time along with Greb ,Robinson ,and Hagler,Mickey Duff promoter,matchmaker , manager,and an excellent judge of fighters thought he would beat Robinson.

I understand the point. SRR was a blown-up WW so I would agree Monzon could probably beat him to death with that vicious overhand right of his.

Hagler on the other hand would be stronger than SRR and Monzon wouldn't be able to push him around once he got in close.

I still think Monzon would beat both, but a Hagler fight would be more difficult.

Just my two cents.

[billeau2]

I don't want to prejudice the thread either. The level of an ATGs competition is always one of my primary standards. I have watched all of those fights before. Now I will probably watch some of them again.

My own POV about competition: I like to use Liston as another example of something that also applies to Monzon. People often look at big names on a fighters resume and these are important... But many people neglect to consider the general level of competition involved with a fighter's career. Both Liston and Monzon fought a lot of tough fighters who were well skilled in addition to big names. When you watch a Monzon fight you see a lot of skills applied by his adversaries. And I do not mean the obvious big names, but the lesser known fighters.

Interestingly (no such word lol) enough, I attribute a similar situation to Hagler. Hamsho, etc... not big names but good, solid, skilled fighters who fought tough and had skills. You just see the things done in the ring.