If Wills Had Fought And Beaten Dempsey In1922?

[travestyny]

What, Johnson had several offer to fight Langford, Jeannette, and McVey. $30,000 to $50 ,000. Use the internet. You are totally cable of finding examples. Johnson could fight in France or the UK with no problem. He could fight in Las Vegas, USA with no problems. Move the fights here. Johnson even pulled out of a signed contact to fight Sam Langford! He did not want to fight them as Champion, period.

Why don't you just post them here. Yes, I am capable of using the internet, but I haven't found anything other than what Johnson accepted, which is what Ivich has posted to you a number of times. You keep claiming he had various offers to fight in other places. Why not just post them here so that we can find out what happened?

And you lose credibility talking about the signed contract. It was for peanuts and even the media reported it was for peanuts. No one in their right mind would honor that contract, which by the way Johnson claims he was not the one to sign if I remember correctly, but his then manager was. It was described in one newspaper article as being for a "paltry sum." NO ONE would have honored that contract, especially against a beast like Langford. You don't win the championship and cash out for $2000 when the guy you just won it from got $30,000. Don't be ridiculous.

You are right. He did not fight them as champion, but he has accepted matches with all of them as champion and had the fights pulled through no fault of his own. This has been proven here over and over and over again.

[Dr. Z]

Why don't you just post them here. Yes, I am capable of using the internet, but I haven't found anything other than what Johnson accepted, which is what Ivich has posted to you a number of times. You keep claiming he had various offers to fight in other places. Why not just post them here so that we can find out what happened?

And you lose credibility talking about the signed contract. It was for peanuts and even the media reported it was for peanuts. No one in their right mind would honor that contract, which by the way Johnson claims he was not the one to sign if I remember correctly, but his then manager was. It was described in one newspaper article as being for a "paltry sum." NO ONE would have honored that contract, especially against a beast like Langford. You don't win the championship and cash out for $2000 when the guy you just won it from got $30,000. Don't be ridiculous.

You are right. He did not fight them as champion, but he has accepted matches with all of them as champion and had the fights pulled through no fault of his own. This has been proven here over and over and over again.

Johnson signed a contact too, but pulled out of the fight. See Sam Langford in 1909. Then promoters blamed Johnson for not fighting them as did the fighters. Are they all liars? Come on, its easy to look at his gate and the amount he received in 1913, 1914, 1915, and 1916 as Johnson did fight for " peanuts ". Your not Ivich, I think your will get it it to a degree.


Now having said that who do you like in the fowling matches? IMO, these matches will not be for peanuts! But who he fought during these years for 1913-1916 were expect for Willard in 1915 who knocked Johnson out.

Johnson vs. Langford 1913

Johnson vs. Jeannete 1914

Johnson vs. Wills 1915

Johnson vs. Mcvey 1916

Thank You.

IMO he ducked them all from 1908-1916. A champion to me is mostly defined by who they beat, and how they beat them.

[travestyny]

Johnson signed a contact too, but pulled out of the fight. See Sam Langford in 1909. Then promoters blamed Johnson for not fighting them as did the fighters. Are they all liars? Come on, its easy to look at his gate and the amount he received in 1913, 1914, 1915, and 1916 as Johnson did fight for " peanuts ". Your not Ivich, I think your will get it it to a degree.


Now having said that who do you like in the fowling matches? IMO, these matches will not be for peanuts! But who he fought during these years for 1913-1916 were expect for Willard in 1915 who knocked Johnson out.

Johnson vs. Langford 1913

Johnson vs. Jeannete 1914

Johnson vs. Wills 1915

Johnson vs. Mcvey 1916

Thank You.

IMO he ducked them all from 1908-1916. A champion to me is mostly defined by who they beat, and how they beat them.

Dude, you are still ducking. Just post up the offers that you claim he had to fight these guys in other places. If you can't, just admit you can't.



Saying "Johnson signed too" doesn't settle what I just told you. That's the contract I'm talking about and there was confusion over who exactly signed it. I think I remember Johnson saying he wasn't the one who signed it. But even if he did, the fight was for nothing.

Would you take a fight that could be worth $30,000 instead for $4000 at most and $2000 possibly?

Can you name even one professional prize fighter who would do that after "striking it big" and winning the heavyweight title?????




Are you asking me who I think would win those fights? I think Johnson would win them all except maybe the Wills fight. It also depends on what shape he is in.

[Dr. Z]

Dude, you are still ducking. Just post up the offers that you claim he had to fight these guys in other places. If you can't, just admit you can't.



Saying "Johnson signed too" doesn't settle what I just told you. That's the contract I'm talking about and there was confusion over who exactly signed it. I think I remember Johnson saying he wasn't the one who signed it. But even if he did, the fight was for nothing.

Would you take a fight that could be worth $30,000 instead for $4000 at most and $2000 possibly?

Can you name even one professional prize fighter who would do that after "striking it big" and winning the heavyweight title?????




Are you asking me who I think would win those fights? I think Johnson would win them all except maybe the Wills fight. It also depends on what shape he is in.

The offer was made pre Johnson beating Burns! I could name 100's of fighters who fought for more and had better tile opponents than Jack Johnson. Johnson made which I believe is 5,000. Now do you want to go over what Johnson made in 1913-1916 vs. his actual opponents? Do you know?

I doubt Johnson goes 3-1 in 1913-1916 vs. Langford, Jeannette, Wills, and McVey! In fact I'd bet against it. Check yourself, he was lucky to draw 1913 vs. Jim Battling Jonson according to reports he was teetering on being knocked out, escaping with a draw. Jack got no votes but Jim had one. He edged a mediocre Moran in 1914. Okay, he was mediocre. And of course he was Ko'd by Willard. Yet you think he goes 3-1 vs. Langford, Jeannette, Wills, and McVey from 1913-1916? Really?

All these fighters Langford, Jeannette, Wills, and McVey had as good or better reputations than Jess Willard. Much better than Moran and Jim Battling Johnson that is for sure!

[travestyny]

The offer was made pre Johnson beating Burns! I could name 100's of fighters who fought for more and had better tile opponents than Jack Johnson. Johnson made which I believe is 5,000. Now do you want to go over what Johnson made in 1913-1916 vs. his actual opponents? Do you know?

I doubt Johnson goes 3-1 in 1913-1916 vs. Langford, Jeannette, Wills, and McVey! In fact I'd bet against it. Check yourself, he was lucky to draw 1913 vs. Jim Battling Jonson according to reports he was teetering on being knocked out, escaping with a draw. Jack got no votes but Jim had one. He edged a mediocre Moran in 1914. Okay, he was mediocre. And of course he was Ko'd by Willard. Yet you think he goes 3-1 vs. Langford, Jeannette, Wills, and McVey from 1913-1916? Really?

All these fighters Langford, Jeannette, Wills, and McVey had as good or better reputations than Jess Willard. Much better than Moran and Jim Battling Johnson that is for sure!

Dude, I know when the offer was made. Jesus Christ. The question wasn't who fought for more. I'm asking who would win the heavyweight title and right away risk losing it for $2000? Can you name anyone?

We know Johnson's price was $30,000. The only fight I see in that time frame that he accepted for less was the Jim Johnson fight which was originally scheduled for 2 weeks or so from the main fight which was to be Moran for $30,000. We've gone through this already.

What does your opinion about who he wins against have to do with offers? You are welcome to your opinion on who wins those fantasy fights, no matter how biased your opinion may be, for example, failing to mention Johnson's broken arm vs. Battling Jim, which was the whole reason his big fight with Moran was put off until a later date.

Just because they had better reps doesn't mean the money was there for the fights, which is why we keep asking you for the offers and you keep BLATANTLY ducking it. Where are the offers???????????????


This is precisely why Ivich gets so frustrated with you. You just blatantly duck the questions he asks and then you come back and repeat the same bull crap over and over again. If you want to have a discussion, then acknowledge the questions that are being posed to you and give an answer!

[Dr. Z]

Dude, I know when the offer was made. Jesus Christ. The question wasn't who fought for more. I'm asking who would win the heavyweight title and right away risk losing it for $2000? Can you name anyone?

We know Johnson's price was $30,000. The only fight I see in that time frame that he accepted for less was the Jim Johnson fight which was originally scheduled for 2 weeks or so from the main fight which was to be Moran for $30,000. We've gone through this already.

What does your opinion about who he wins against have to do with offers? You are welcome to your opinion on who wins those fantasy fights, no matter how biased your opinion may be, for example, failing to mention Johnson's broken arm vs. Battling Jim, which was the whole reason his big fight with Moran was put off until a later date.

Just because they had better reps doesn't mean the money was there for the fights, which is why we keep asking you for the offers and you keep BLATANTLY ducking it. Where are the offers???????????????


This is precisely why Ivich gets so frustrated with you. You just blatantly duck the questions he asks and then you come back and repeat the same bull crap over and over again. If you want to have a discussion, then acknowledge the questions that are being posed to you and give an answer!

Why not fight Langford next! Please explain? Langford's manger Joe Woodman tried to make the Langford vs. Johnson fight several times. It is a duck of the #1 contender for years.... 1909- 1915 and beyond.

Johnson fought Moran for peanuts. Get real!

[travestyny]

Why not fight Langford next! Please explain? Langford's manger Joe Woodman tried to make the Langford vs. Johnson fight several times. It is a duck of the #1 contender for years.... 1909- 1915 and beyond.

Johnson fought Moran for peanuts. Get real!

Fight him next as in when????

He tried to fight Langford about 4 times. I've listed each time he tried to fight him here before to you so I know you know that.


By the way.....do you ever get tired of ducking? Why won't you answer any questions? You obviously have nothing. Just admit it and move along already.

[Ivich]

Fight him next as in when????

He tried to fight Langford about 4 times. I've listed each time he tried to fight him here before to you so I know you know that.


By the way.....do you ever get tired of ducking? Why won't you answer any questions? You obviously have nothing. Just admit it and move along already.

He has said offers of $30,000, $40,000 and$100,000 were made, and that they could have fought, in France, UK, Australia ,and even Russia! What he never posts are the promoters, venues,dates or purses for these"offers"that Johnson supposedly refused.
He's obsessed with hatred for Johnson, the man is full of poison,it's a sickness.

[Ivich]

Why not fight Langford next! Please explain? Langford's manger Joe Woodman tried to make the Langford vs. Johnson fight several times. It is a duck of the #1 contender for years.... 1909- 1915 and beyond.

Johnson fought Moran for peanuts. Get real!

Johnson fought Moran for $ 30,000 ,but he didnt get it.

"The truth is that the promoter was convinced Johnson was finished as a fighter and that Moran could beat him and would then be worth "a fortune of money." He was further convinced of this when Johnson, out after some extra money before the Moran bout, broke a small bone in his left arm while fighting a heavyweight named Battling Jim Johnson. McKetrick could not endure the thought of Ike Dorgan cutting in on his expected bonanza. In this implacable mood, McKetrick decided that nobody would get anything until matters were arranged as he wanted them. Using a claim against Moran for a $1,497 advance as legal excuse, he instructed a French lawyer to tie up the entire amount in the box office the minute the fight was over.

When the fight took place, before a fashionable audience at the Vélodrome d'Hiver, McKetrick saw he had been terribly mistaken about Moran's chances. It was true that Johnson was not in first-rate condition, but his superlative defense held up, and he was able to evade the dreaded Mary Ann and give Moran a severe beating without the full use of his left arm. Johnson had a rather preoccupied air, for he had heard rumors of writs and lawyers and knew but too well that this always meant trouble. And, as he feared, he was told after the fight that French police had grabbed the money and taken it away.

"Goodby, money, you're going to be long gone," Johnson muttered, shaking his head, and drove out to his villa in suburban Asnieres-sur-Seine for a victory banquet of chicken, lobster, whisky and champagne, all obtained on credit. These events took place on the night of June 27, 1914. Next day, in the provincial Bosnian town of Sarajevo, a political assassin shot the Austrian Archduke Francis Ferdinand. Within 48 hours McKetrick's lawyer was called to military service, and in the excitement he left without giving his client the necessary papers to get the funds out of the Bank of France. When McKetrick cooled down and applied for the money the bank officials told him they had no authority to release it. It had taken McKetrick four weeks to get into a mood to talk business, and by this time World War I had broken out; and so the settlement would have to wait until the lawyer could get back to Paris on a furlough. But that brave man, unhappily, was killed in one of the first engagements, and to this day not a single sou of the gate receipts has ever been sprung. And so the Johnson-Moran match must be recorded as history's only world heavyweight championship fight in which the contestants worked without pay."
Extract from Finis Farr's biography of Johnson.

For some one totally obsessed with Johnson ,you know surprisingly little about him and his fights!

[travestyny]

Johnson fought Moran for $ 30,000 ,but he didnt get it.

"The truth is that the promoter was convinced Johnson was finished as a fighter and that Moran could beat him and would then be worth "a fortune of money." He was further convinced of this when Johnson, out after some extra money before the Moran bout, broke a small bone in his left arm while fighting a heavyweight named Battling Jim Johnson. McKetrick could not endure the thought of Ike Dorgan cutting in on his expected bonanza. In this implacable mood, McKetrick decided that nobody would get anything until matters were arranged as he wanted them. Using a claim against Moran for a $1,497 advance as legal excuse, he instructed a French lawyer to tie up the entire amount in the box office the minute the fight was over.

When the fight took place, before a fashionable audience at the Vélodrome d'Hiver, McKetrick saw he had been terribly mistaken about Moran's chances. It was true that Johnson was not in first-rate condition, but his superlative defense held up, and he was able to evade the dreaded Mary Ann and give Moran a severe beating without the full use of his left arm. Johnson had a rather preoccupied air, for he had heard rumors of writs and lawyers and knew but too well that this always meant trouble. And, as he feared, he was told after the fight that French police had grabbed the money and taken it away.

"Goodby, money, you're going to be long gone," Johnson muttered, shaking his head, and drove out to his villa in suburban Asnieres-sur-Seine for a victory banquet of chicken, lobster, whisky and champagne, all obtained on credit. These events took place on the night of June 27, 1914. Next day, in the provincial Bosnian town of Sarajevo, a political assassin shot the Austrian Archduke Francis Ferdinand. Within 48 hours McKetrick's lawyer was called to military service, and in the excitement he left without giving his client the necessary papers to get the funds out of the Bank of France. When McKetrick cooled down and applied for the money the bank officials told him they had no authority to release it. It had taken McKetrick four weeks to get into a mood to talk business, and by this time World War I had broken out; and so the settlement would have to wait until the lawyer could get back to Paris on a furlough. But that brave man, unhappily, was killed in one of the first engagements, and to this day not a single sou of the gate receipts has ever been sprung. And so the Johnson-Moran match must be recorded as history's only world heavyweight championship fight in which the contestants worked without pay."
Extract from Finis Farr's biography of Johnson.

For some one totally obsessed with Johnson ,you know surprisingly little about him and his fights!

He knows this because we've explained it to him over and over and over again. He just puts his head in the sand and repeats the same bullshlt because he is blinded by his hatred.