Did we do a thread Max Schmeling versus Gene Tunney?

[billeau2]

If someone did this thread already apologies... This would be an interesting fight for sure! If you took a tool kit, both guys would have similar tools inside, however the hammer, screwdriver, etc would be very different in each tool box. So before the analogy runs into the sunset... Max and Gene could both hit ( we will call this the hammer), Max had a bigger right (imo), Both guys could move, (screwdriver anyone?) Tunney had a lot faster feet and a lot more range of movements, both guys had technical skills, could counter punch exceptionally, were clever, and mentally tough.

Gene could set a pace that might trouble Max, but Max was clever enough not to easily be set up by Tunney. Both guys threw the overhand right, but Max could make the punch more of a game changer. Inside Tunney was tough and liked to set up for shots while backing off, Schmeling was more apt to pursue the opponent straight on.

I see this as a really close fight. I tend to have a bias for Tunney, I think he was one of the greatest fighters, but Schmelling was very very good, and his right was sneaky! It is how he managed to catch Louis with it so well. Could Tunney feint Schmelling and catch him with a flurry? Yes, but Tunney would have to be very aware of Schmelling's countering ability.

I think Tunney wins a close one here.

[mrbig1]

I could make a case for both. Gun to my head I would pick Tunney. Gene had speed and underrated power. Max was a very smart fighter and a good counter puncher.

[max baer]

used to look at max as a boxer that never wanted that hitler to hold him up as one of them and that badly affected his big time boxing as he felt so uncomfortable with that on his shoulders as he was a nice guy to the core. i think he was unfortunate to have been landed in that **** sh1ite

[billeau2]

used to look at max as a boxer that never wanted that hitler to hold him up as one of them and that badly affected his big time boxing as he felt so uncomfortable with that on his shoulders as he was a nice guy to the core. i think he was unfortunate to have been landed in that **** sh1ite

Yup... It is a shame because he was by all accounts heroic, not simply decent. Luckily that has come out... My old man had no idea, and most people also have no idea how much he helped Louis.

I do not want to sound pedantic here: but sections like this have a duty to let people know things and set the record straight. It is wonderful to see in my lifetime that people know that Schmelling was not a ****, something I am sure the Soul of Max appreciates!

[Willow The Wisp]

If someone did this thread already apologies... This would be an interesting fight for sure! If you took a tool kit, both guys would have similar tools inside, however the hammer, screwdriver, etc would be very different in each tool box. So before the analogy runs into the sunset... Max and Gene could both hit ( we will call this the hammer), Max had a bigger right (imo), Both guys could move, (screwdriver anyone?) Tunney had a lot faster feet and a lot more range of movements, both guys had technical skills, could counter punch exceptionally, were clever, and mentally tough.

Gene could set a pace that might trouble Max, but Max was clever enough not to easily be set up by Tunney. Both guys threw the overhand right, but Max could make the punch more of a game changer. Inside Tunney was tough and liked to set up for shots while backing off, Schmeling was more apt to pursue the opponent straight on.

I see this as a really close fight. I tend to have a bias for Tunney, I think he was one of the greatest fighters, but Schmelling was very very good, and his right was sneaky! It is how he managed to catch Louis with it so well. Could Tunney feint Schmelling and catch him with a flurry? Yes, but Tunney would have to be very aware of Schmelling's countering ability.

I think Tunney wins a close one here.

So what if we did? There's plenty of gold buried in the past amongst all the junk on each of these boxing boards; but we can ask again. One of favorite posters here, I think that your analysis is dead accurate.
Not much value in my rephrasing it, therefore.

Gene Tunney was Ring Magazine's very first fighter of the year for, 1928. That same year he married his long time lover Mary Josephine "Polly" Lauder, heiress to the United States Steel fortune through her grandfather George Lauder and her great-uncle Andrew Carnegie. Already a respected intellectual and self made multimillionaire, Gene began his retirement being unimaginably weathy. Adjusting for inflation, the couple had a fortune considerably greater than Michael Jordan's today. When Gene announced his retirement from the ring on July 30, 1928, with an astonishing record of 65-1-1, there was no going back for "The Fighting Marine".
Tunney’s stature only grew after his fighting days as a noted businessman and philanthropist. During World War II he served five years as an officer in the U.S. navy, directing the programs used to maintain the Navy's physical fitness and self defense.
Far more than a famous athlete who married into one of the wealthiest families in the world, Tunney was a giant in the business world in the United States and Canada, where he became an executive of banks, manufacturing companies, insurance firms, and a newspaper; the Toronto Globe and Mail, Canada's largest daily newspaper. He pursued his interest in literature and was the acclaimed author of A Man Must Fight (1932) and the autobiographical Arms for Living (1941).
His Friends included literary giants Ernest Hemingway and George Bernard Shaw, and his son John V. Tunney became a United States senator.

The erudite historian Charley Rose ranked Tunney as the #6 All-Time Heavyweight; legendary Ring founder Nat Fleischer ranked him as the #8 All-Time Heavyweight; and my friend, the respected Herb Goldman ranked him as the #1 All-Time Light Heavyweight. Gene was inducted into the Ring Boxing Hall of Fame in 1955 and the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1990, part of the very first induction class - among he greatest of the greats.
When Tunney died at 81 he was still razor sharp and among the 100 richest people in the world.

Not at all bad for the Irish-Catholic son of a stevedore who toiled 12 hours a day to make ends meet.

But just what if.....

What if the crash of 29' had wiped Tunney out and he'd married Katherine King Fogarty?

What would the final chapter of Gene Tunney's career have looked like then?

Driven hard to rebuild his riches, how would he have fared using all of his considerable gifts to fend off the challenges of Schmelling, Sharkey, Stribling, Godfrey, Persson, Wills, DeMave, Munn, Compolo, De Kuh, Uzcudun, Carnera, Maloney, Hansen, Scott, Von Porat, Dorval, Griffiths, Schaaf, Braddock, even Baer?

I don't imagine anyone stopping him from racking up successful title defenses for years, myself.
I think, that about the time Tunny got enough of lapping up the contenders, a young Joe Louis would soon turn pro to take over the duty, and I believe that Tunney, 17 years his senior, would've long since exhibited the wisdom to be out of Joe's way.

What about you?

[QueensburyRules]

- - Max might well beat Greb easier than Tunney. Good strategic match that prob favors Gene, but not a given.

[billeau2]

So what if we did? There's plenty of gold buried in the past amongst all the junk on each of these boxing boards; but we can ask again. One of favorite posters here, I think that your analysis is dead accurate.
Not much value in my rephrasing it, therefore.

Gene Tunney was Ring Magazine's very first fighter of the year for, 1928. That same year he married his long time lover Mary Josephine "Polly" Lauder, heiress to the United States Steel fortune through her grandfather George Lauder and her great-uncle Andrew Carnegie. Already a respected intellectual and self made multimillionaire, Gene began his retirement being unimaginably weathy. Adjusting for inflation, the couple had a fortune considerably greater than Michael Jordan's today. When Gene announced his retirement from the ring on July 30, 1928, with an astonishing record of 65-1-1, there was no going back for "The Fighting Marine".
Tunney’s stature only grew after his fighting days as a noted businessman and philanthropist. During World War II he served five years as an officer in the U.S. navy, directing the programs used to maintain the Navy's physical fitness and self defense.
Far more than a famous athlete who married into one of the wealthiest families in the world, Tunney was a giant in the business world in the United States and Canada, where he became an executive of banks, manufacturing companies, insurance firms, and a newspaper; the Toronto Globe and Mail, Canada's largest daily newspaper. He pursued his interest in literature and was the acclaimed author of A Man Must Fight (1932) and the autobiographical Arms for Living (1941).
His Friends included literary giants Ernest Hemingway and George Bernard Shaw, and his son John V. Tunney became a United States senator.

The erudite historian Charley Rose ranked Tunney as the #6 All-Time Heavyweight; legendary Ring founder Nat Fleischer ranked him as the #8 All-Time Heavyweight; and my friend, the respected Herb Goldman ranked him as the #1 All-Time Light Heavyweight. Gene was inducted into the Ring Boxing Hall of Fame in 1955 and the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1990, part of the very first induction class - among he greatest of the greats.
When Tunney died at 81 he was still razor sharp and among the 100 richest people in the world.

Not at all bad for the Irish-Catholic son of a stevedore who toiled 12 hours a day to make ends meet.

But just what if.....

What if the crash of 29' had wiped Tunney out and he'd married Katherine King Fogarty?

What would the final chapter of Gene Tunney's career have looked like then?

Driven hard to rebuild his riches, how would he have fared using all of his considerable gifts to fend off the challenges of Schmelling, Sharkey, Stribling, Godfrey, Persson, Wills, DeMave, Munn, Compolo, De Kuh, Uzcudun, Carnera, Maloney, Hansen, Scott, Von Porat, Dorval, Griffiths, Schaaf, Braddock, even Baer?

I don't imagine anyone stopping him from racking up successful title defenses for years, myself.
I think, that about the time Tunny got enough of lapping up the contenders, a young Joe Louis would soon turn pro to take over the duty, and I believe that Tunney, 17 years his senior, would've long since exhibited the wisdom to be out of Joe's way.

What about you?

My dad was a marine, a generation removed from Gene, but I believe the thinking was similar: "People could do it if they worked hard enough to do it." Tunney probably believed his drive would suffice to make him wealthy regardless. I am more cynical than that. I think we have to be true to ourselves, but the world does prevent us at times. I think when the world was smaller people had more opportunities, and more people respected a handshake and a man's word. I raised my sons the old fashioned way, so I would never accuse a man like Tunney of having purloined his fortunes somehow... Furthermore at that time? people could do more. My dad was given a Master's Degree in Music from a conservatory and hired to be the dean of a conservatory... Now a days? I can't see it happening.

As far as Tunney fighting on: As long as he was able to do the things he did, he was a challenge. But could he be motivated? I mean hagler's statement about "a man not getting up to do roadwork at 5am in silk pajamas" rings true here. I think Gene probably knew he lost some of the fire... and Bless any fighter that has this realization before he is robbed of his faculties.

[Ivich]

If someone did this thread already apologies... This would be an interesting fight for sure! If you took a tool kit, both guys would have similar tools inside, however the hammer, screwdriver, etc would be very different in each tool box. So before the analogy runs into the sunset... Max and Gene could both hit ( we will call this the hammer), Max had a bigger right (imo), Both guys could move, (screwdriver anyone?) Tunney had a lot faster feet and a lot more range of movements, both guys had technical skills, could counter punch exceptionally, were clever, and mentally tough.

Gene could set a pace that might trouble Max, but Max was clever enough not to easily be set up by Tunney. Both guys threw the overhand right, but Max could make the punch more of a game changer. Inside Tunney was tough and liked to set up for shots while backing off, Schmeling was more apt to pursue the opponent straight on.

I see this as a really close fight. I tend to have a bias for Tunney, I think he was one of the greatest fighters, but Schmelling was very very good, and his right was sneaky! It is how he managed to catch Louis with it so well. Could Tunney feint Schmelling and catch him with a flurry? Yes, but Tunney would have to be very aware of Schmelling's countering ability.

I think Tunney wins a close one here.

I think Tunney's right was more of a straight one,rather than over hand shorter and quicker than Max's,and probably not quite as potent. Louis came forward into Max's power, looking to ko the German.
Tunney would not do this,he would be Leonard to Max's Hearns,in and out.
Because Max ko'd Louis so shockingly people forget Joe's jab had closed his eye.Gene's jab, while not as heavy as Louis' ,was fast and very accurate and never over extended ,Schmeling would take some punishment here.
In conclusion.
Tunney's wheels win this for him, he would be too mobile for the German. U Dec for Gene.

[billeau2]

I think Tunney's right was more of a straight one,rather than over hand shorter and quicker than Max's,and probably not quite as potent. Louis came forward into Max's power, looking to ko the German.
Tunney would not do this,he would be Leonard to Max's Hearns,in and out.
Because Max ko'd Louis so shockingly people forget Joe's jab had closed his eye.Gene's jab, while not as heavy as Louis' ,was fast and very accurate and never over extended ,Schmeling would take some punishment here.
In coclusion.
Tunney's wheels win this for him, he would be too mobile for the German. U Dec for Gene.

Great observation! I remember that when I heard of this fight from my dad I had thought it was a case of Schmelling quickly figuring out the counter and suprising Louis quickly. Years later when watching the fight you could see, and I attribute this as a star for Schmelling... Max really had to work for that little telegraph to function properly! It was a battle.

[billeau2]

While we are on the subject of "rights" what would happen if Schmelling fought Bauer? They did fight! of course this was (I believe?) in Schmelling's twilight years, but here is that contest.

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