Almost an ATG But Not Quite

[The D3vil]

Great Pick. Mikey Garcia. With the right career choices he might could have put himself among conversations of ATGness, the elite. Spence was a terribly arrogant career choice for Mikey.

It was ballsy. He wanted to become a 5 division titlist, which would have put him on a list that so far only includes:
Tommy Hearns (and that's only if you include WBO titles before they were recognized by the WBC, WBA, or IBF)
Sugar Ray Leonard
Oscar De La Hoya
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Manny Pacquiao

But yeah, Spence was all wrong for Mikey. Not sure the other titlists of the time (Thurman, Crawford, Porter, Danny G) would've been beatable for Mikey either. But if he'd been at 147 when guys like Vargas, Broner, Ghost Guerrero, or Berto were walking around with belts he might've had a shot.

He didn't want to fight Lomachenko, so he moved up to fight Spence so people would stop asking him about Loma

Amir Khan did the same thing when he moved up to fight Canelo, so people would stop bringing up Kell Brook.

It's a real bxtch ass move.

[famicommander]

He didn't want to fight Lomachenko, so he moved up to fight Spence so people would stop asking him about Loma

Amir Khan did the same thing when he moved up to fight Canelo, so people would stop bringing up Kell Brook.

It's a real bxtch ass move.

I don't think he was afraid to fight Lomachenko. I think he just knew it would be a really hard fight to make because of Bob Arum.

I am a huge Lomachenko fan but I honestly would've favored Mikey in that fight at 135.

I think Khan knew he was screwed against Canelo. I think Mikey was delusional enough to think he could beat Spence.

[Slugfester]

We will never have universal agreement on most things around here. It wouldn't be much fun if we did. And of course ATGness is not viewed through the same lens by all either. For some, ATGness does not differ from plain old generic greatness--if you are great you are great. Others prefer finer controls for finer differentiation, and do believe there is a distinction between greatness and ATGness.

_____________________________________


The argument for ignorance has some merit--surely it keeps a few out. But many more who are undeserving might get in with a more ******* approach? Some of the really old guys we might want to include on reputation and record alone, could turn out to be, in fact, guys who would not quite make the cut to ATG, if we only had more and better visual evidence. For a few, their record and reputation are so good they seem to practically seal the deal anyway, a la Greb and Langford.

But how do we know which of those others were the Calzaghes and Maxims and Nortons of their day, i.e. close but not really a cigar winner?

______________________________________


Is it better to inadvertently and ignorantly leave out a few deserving, or to open the gates to a near-deserving hoard? That hoard deserves its own hall, don't they? The Hall Of Near-Deserving Boxing Fame. Pretty soon the A,B,Cs could give everyone a participation trophy.

I like reserving the term ATGness for the highest form of boxing recognition and praise. If I hand it out too many times I eventually just have to find a grander superlative to replace it.

[QueensburyRules]

He didn't want to fight Lomachenko, so he moved up to fight Spence so people would stop asking him about Loma

Amir Khan did the same thing when he moved up to fight Canelo, so people would stop bringing up Kell Brook.

It's a real bxtch ass move.

- - Zero equivalency between Brooksie, a local paper champ and Loma a record setting international fighter.

Khan fought Canelo as the next best option after l'l floydy dumped on his fans who chose Khan over Maidana in his poll to get beat up not only by Maidana, but also his own fans whom he stiffed.

Meanwhile, Canelo had been rubbing in l'l floydy by stealing Khan and Cotto for big fights so he would be forced to take their rematch that he ducked.

[The D3vil]

I don't think he was afraid to fight Lomachenko. I think he just knew it would be a really hard fight to make because of Bob Arum.

I am a huge Lomachenko fan but I honestly would've favored Mikey in that fight at 135.

I think Khan knew he was screwed against Canelo. I think Mikey was delusional enough to think he could beat Spence.

If Mikey thought he could win against Spence he would've tried to win.

He just "survived" for 12 rounds. That's not what someone who wants to win does.

[The D3vil]

- - Zero equivalency between Brooksie, a local paper champ and Loma a record setting international fighter.

Khan fought Canelo as the next best option after l'l floydy dumped on his fans who chose Khan over Maidana in his poll to get beat up not only by Maidana, but also his own fans whom he stiffed.

Meanwhile, Canelo had been rubbing in l'l floydy by stealing Khan and Cotto for big fights so he would be forced to take their rematch that he ducked.

Man, there was no bigger fight for Amir Khan than Kell Brook, especially in the UK.

Canelo wasn't even known in the UK back then. He was scared to get KTFO by his rival & chose to get KTFO in a fight he had no shot in to cash a check & save himself embarrassment

Kell Brook was on P4P lists in 2017, undefeated, and is still the only man to really easily beat a prime Shawn Porter.

And Floyd won 10 rounds against Canelo, why would he fight Canelo again?

He was doing Canelo a favor by fighting him the first time & he schooled him in a fight that wasn't even close.

There was no need for a rematch.