Is Manny Pacquiao an all-time great?

[mickey malone]

I can't think of a better fighter to come out of Asia, so YES he is...

[StarshipTrooper]

Larry Merchant has blagged alot of people in the head! He ain't no modern day Harry Carpenter who takes on all comers, and it is mainly because Arum is a nobhead but also because Manny doesn't want to say anything and likes to hide behind him. Manny might be willing but the filhty old **** left several years after the controversial JMM fight before making a rematch. After that they didn't want no more because they knew they had lost. A real throwback wouldn't have said 'my manager makes up my mind' and would have said something to make the fight happen and hype it up! Apart from that, he doesn't really know hwo to box and is not very gifted on the technical front. He's exciting and has natural gifts but not much more to cement an ATG status. Most of his scalps were over the hill, and the biggest ones were Mayweathers left overs

Rafael Benitez heading for yet another ban!

Poet

[Silencers]

Yes, I believe he is.

[Obama]

So why didn't he fight Casamoyer, Frietas, Stevie Johnson and others that are not coming immediately to mind?

And the thread has nothing to do with Floyd, but Im asking because you have st an obvious double standard.

I wish you wouldn't write comments inside of a quote, I can't quote it and it makes it hard for me to see what you said. Anyways I will attempt to address the issues in the order you brought them up in.

The issue is not so much that Pac didn't fight Campbell or Casa in his first LW fight (although Marquez did, and Guzman was scheduled to in their first LW bouts). The issue is that Pac fought David Diaz instead, which was nothing more than cherry picking a soup title. Cherry picking a soup title from a guy who didn't even deserve to wear the title, whilst having NO other intentions of fighting anyone else in the division is unacceptable. Mayweather cannot be accused of this. So you need to clarify exactly what I'm giving Floyd a pass on. It's clearly not the same situation. Not to mention Floyd's first LW title fight was against the #1 LW in the world....close the book on this chapter.

Who faced better fighters in the SBW division, Pac or Guzman, is not relevant. What's relevant is that Pac wasn't fighting the best of the division, as the best was clearly Guzman. They were both Champions. Guzman was and still is undefeated. Guzman KOed a guy Pac couldn't beat. It's a no brainer that the fight should have been made. And the only thing superior about Pac's SBW resume is the fact that he was more active. Guzman just isn't a very active fighter. Being a highly active is not required for having an elite status, or making you worth fighting.

About Hatton, I'm not debating that he was Ring Champion. Clearly he was. I'm telling you the man was past his prime. Floyd ruined him. It's evident in the Lazcano fight. Beating feather fisted Paulie who decided to stop fighting after the first round (which he easily won) is not grounds for proving your still the best of the division. He cherry picked Paulie, who was on a string of ****ty performances, getting at least 2 gift decisions from N'dou and Ngoudjo. You can't compare the Paulie that fought Diaz to the one that fought N'dou, Ngoudjo, and Hatton. At this point Bradley was clearly better than Hatton. There's at least 5 JWWs I pick to beat Hatton now, not including JMM, who's highly interested in fighting him now.

Now for what I could ACTUALLY quote from you...

It's a damn shame he didn't fight Casa. He was interested in the fight. Had Casa not been robbed by Popo it prolly would have been made. Popo didn't move up to Lightweight until Floyd left. And Johnston wasn't fought because he couldn't avenge his loss to Castillo. Johnston never won a high profile fight again.

I don't see this double standard you're talking about here. I never claimed Floyd fought all of the best. I don't think it's OK regardless of excuses, and I'm glad he's going to correct that now. I also didn't claim Pac avoided fighting the best...I merely said he avoided fighting his most difficult opponents. Floyd didn't. There's no double standard there, you can't compare apples to oranges.

Ex) Emanuel Augustus was much more difficult than Diego Corrales. Was Augustus REMOTELY close to being as great as Corrales? Hellllllll no. But Floyd fought him.

Why did I bring any of this up in the first place? Since we're drifting here I'll just remind you because this seriously needs to end. I brought it up because Pac's overall performance against his competition is deceptive. The 3 times he got tested in his relevant career he lost a UD, drew, and won a SD. And the draw and SD could have easily been UD losses. Based off his fighting style, I'd bet any amount of money a slick counter puncher would also give him absolute hell.

And that's the bottom line.

And by the way, thanks for this argument, you got me turned red by the Pac Hugger squad.

Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:54 AM LOLAGE! PWNAGE! i disapprove!
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:53 AM joartccjr. EDUCATE YOURSELF.
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:52 AM MR. SMILEY PAC HATER
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:49 AM Domayn pac is atg
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:47 AM PACHUGGER PAC IS GOD

Well, you have to remember the very narrow and warped framework that ***** sees boxing through: ie. the worst "slick" fighter is better than the best "non-slick" fighter. As I noted before he's incapable of differentiating between his own personal preferences and an fact.

Poet

If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Don't reverse your problems then project them onto me. I'm not the opposite of you. You merely lack the mental capacity to understand me. And if you haven't noticed, Jab doesn't share your opinions of me so direct your childish responses to people who are as sad as you are. Instead you leave Jab in an uncomfortable position where he ends up not responding to you.

[JAB5239]

I wish you wouldn't write comments inside of a quote, I can't quote it and it makes it hard for me to see what you said. Anyways I will attempt to address the issues in the order you brought them up in.

The issue is not so much that Pac didn't fight Campbell or Casa in his first LW fight (although Marquez did, and Guzman was scheduled to in their first LW bouts). The issue is that Pac fought David Diaz instead, which was nothing more than cherry picking a soup title. Cherry picking a soup title from a guy who didn't even deserve to wear the title, whilst having NO other intentions of fighting anyone else in the division is unacceptable. Mayweather cannot be accused of this. So you need to clarify exactly what I'm giving Floyd a pass on. It's clearly not the same situation. Not to mention Floyd's first LW title fight was against the #1 LW in the world....close the book on this chapter.

Who faced better fighters in the SBW division, Pac or Guzman, is not relevant. What's relevant is that Pac wasn't fighting the best of the division, as the best was clearly Guzman. They were both Champions. Guzman was and still is undefeated. Guzman KOed a guy Pac couldn't beat. It's a no brainer that the fight should have been made. And the only thing superior about Pac's SBW resume is the fact that he was more active. Guzman just isn't a very active fighter. Being a highly active is not required for having an elite status, or making you worth fighting.

About Hatton, I'm not debating that he was Ring Champion. Clearly he was. I'm telling you the man was past his prime. Floyd ruined him. It's evident in the Lazcano fight. Beating feather fisted Paulie who decided to stop fighting after the first round (which he easily won) is not grounds for proving your still the best of the division. He cherry picked Paulie, who was on a string of ****ty performances, getting at least 2 gift decisions from N'dou and Ngoudjo. You can't compare the Paulie that fought Diaz to the one that fought N'dou, Ngoudjo, and Hatton. At this point Bradley was clearly better than Hatton. There's at least 5 JWWs I pick to beat Hatton now, not including JMM, who's highly interested in fighting him now.

Now for what I could ACTUALLY quote from you...

It's a damn shame he didn't fight Casa. He was interested in the fight. Had Casa not been robbed by Popo it prolly would have been made. Popo didn't move up to Lightweight until Floyd left. And Johnston wasn't fought because he couldn't avenge his loss to Castillo. Johnston never won a high profile fight again.

I don't see this double standard you're talking about here. I never claimed Floyd fought all of the best. I don't think it's OK regardless of excuses, and I'm glad he's going to correct that now. I also didn't claim Pac avoided fighting the best...I merely said he avoided fighting his most difficult opponents. Floyd didn't. There's no double standard there, you can't compare apples to oranges.

Ex) Emanuel Augustus was much more difficult than Diego Corrales. Was Augustus REMOTELY close to being as great as Corrales? Hellllllll no. But Floyd fought him.

Why did I bring any of this up in the first place? Since we're drifting here I'll just remind you because this seriously needs to end. I brought it up because Pac's overall performance against his competition is deceptive. The 3 times he got tested in his relevant career he lost a UD, drew, and won a SD. And the draw and SD could have easily been UD losses. Based off his fighting style, I'd bet any amount of money a slick counter puncher would also give him absolute hell.

And that's the bottom line.

And by the way, thanks for this argument, you got me turned red by the Pac Hugger squad.

Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:54 AM LOLAGE! PWNAGE! i disapprove!
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:53 AM joartccjr. EDUCATE YOURSELF.
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:52 AM MR. SMILEY PAC HATER
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:49 AM Domayn pac is atg
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:47 AM PACHUGGER PAC IS GOD

I always respect your arguments even if I don't agree. sorry the Pac huggers turned you red, it wasn't my intention for that to happen at all. If I can green you, you got it. If not, I'll catch back up to you.

[StarshipTrooper]

If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Don't reverse your problems then project them onto me. I'm not the opposite of you. You merely lack the mental capacity to understand me. And if you haven't noticed, Jab doesn't share your opinions of me so direct your childish responses to people who are as sad as you are. Instead you leave Jab in an uncomfortable position where he ends up not responding to you.

I thought you had decided I'm not worth responding to? Regardless I hardly regard myself as your polar opposite.....rather I'm something that you simply cannot comprehend due to your muddled state of mind. I'm not the one, afterall, who thinks his person preferences for certain types of fighters bestows on them the impramatur of "best" (see your repeated posts regarding "slick" fighters over other styles).

Now, you can choose to respond to me or not, put me on ignore or not: It really doesn't matter to as you're not someone views I take seriously. Rather you're a source of amusement to me much the way a 1st grader's attempts at intellectual discourse would be amusing to me as a college graduate. Much the way your sophmoric attempts to score cheap debating points at a high school debate club are. While you attemp to veil yourself in a kind of psuedo-intellectuallism an academic you are most certainly not: You simply do not have the capacity for it.

Poet

[Obama]

an academic you are most certainly not: You simply do not have the capacity for it.

Poet[/COLOR]

Cutting out the bull**** from your post, I have a 3.9 GPA at Temple University. My department is Electrical Engineering. I'm a part of the Golden Key National Honor Society, and I'll be finishing up my Bachelors with GPA in tact next year.

You assume a lot about me which isn't true when it comes to how I rate fighters. You don't really pay a lot of attention to reading what other people have to say. You'd rather skim it and spend the majority of your time judging them. To each his own, but it's not an adult thing to do.

[Cadillac Man]

Is the sky blue?

[StarshipTrooper]

Cutting out the bull**** from your post, I have a 3.9 GPA at Temple University. My department is Electrical Engineering. I'm a part of the Golden Key National Honor Society, and I'll be finishing up my Bachelors with GPA in tact next year.

You assume a lot about me which isn't true when it comes to how I rate fighters. You don't really pay a lot of attention to reading what other people have to say. You'd rather skim it and spend the majority of your time judging them. To each his own, but it's not an adult thing to do.

Translation: You're pursuing a technical degree not an academic degree. In other words you're studying to be a electrician which is on the same level as studying to be a plumber.

On the contrary, I pay a great deal of attention to what people post which is how I'm able to remind dip****s like yourself of posts you've made that you'd possibly rather forget. Or posts that contradict more recent ones. Or posts that demonstrate your biases. Or posts that show your hypocracy. Maybe YOU should go back and peruse your past posts where you invariably favor certain fighters over the rest on account of their "slick" manner of fighting.

Poet

[them_apples]

How does being a slick fighter automatically make you better than everyone else? FFS Derrick Gainer was a 'slick' fighter and got his ass taxed against a counter puncher by the name of Marquez at his best weight. How do you lose by running and pot shotting against a counter puncher? Just shows being slick isn't all what it's cracked up to be. ( got nothing against Gainer btw)

Fact is Pacquiao has done everything Floyd has done - and finished the job like a true p4p champ.

Every one of Floyds wins above 140 have huge loopholes in them. Oscar giving him hell, Marquez being slow as hell - blown up and not belonging at 147, Ricky just not being that good. What I don't get is how you can be the p4p best fighting at WW and somehow avoid Cotto, Mosely, Margarito or even Williams. Why doesn't he just fight at 140 if he thinks those guys are too big.