Is Manny Pacquiao an all-time great?

[Obama]

Your dislike for the man causes you to ignore sound reasoning altogether. The man is a more complete fighter than Roy ever was. If you rank Roy that high, Floyd should surely be there too. It's not like you can scapegoat on the resume card. Roy doesn't have a better one.

Just because Roy's style entertains you more doesn't make him super great, and Floyd not so.

And stop bringing up where other idiots rank Roy. The people that matter don't put him in the top 20. Plain and simple.

[StarshipTrooper]

Your dislike for the man causes you to ignore sound reasoning altogether. The man is a more complete fighter than Roy ever was. If you rank Roy that high, Floyd should surely be there too. It's not like you can scapegoat on the resume card. Roy doesn't have a better one.

Jones is better than Mayweather ever dreamed of being. Floyd should set his sights a bit lower and consider comparing himself to Hector Camacho which is a FAR more appropriate comparison.

Just because Roy's style entertains you more doesn't make him super great, and Floyd not so.

Simply because you have a fondness for "slick" fighters doesn't mean you should confuse your personal predlictions for an objective view of what is best.

And stop bringing up where other idiots rank Roy. The people that matter don't put him in the top 20. Plain and simple.

In that case why should it matter where YOU (who I consider an exceptionally large idiot) rank Jones? And who are YOU to decide who "matters" and who does not? When did YOU become the arbiter of who's views matter? I think you're having meglamaniacal delusions.

Poet

[Obama]

Poet, you are possibly the biggest loser I have ever met online. You're not even worth responding to anymore. Get a life.

[StarshipTrooper]

Poet, you are possibly the biggest loser I have ever met online. You're not even worth responding to anymore. Get a life.

Whatever! For what it's worth you're the most pretensious twat I'VE ever met on-line.....not to mention someone who has VERY little to be pretensious about! The truth is someone could learn more about boxing from a skid-row wino than they ever could from you

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Poet, you are possibly the biggest loser I have ever met online. You're not even worth responding to anymore. Get a life.

BTW, your response is that of someone who's nows he's been hoisted on his own petard. Too bad so sad

Poet

[gqjohnb]

Manny is an ATG, but his selection of opponents pre-Cotto has been rather similar if I must say so. He seems to avoid slick fighters at all costs. I think he's taking Cotto only because Freddie figures Cotto is a spent force now.

Yeah he's guilty of doing what most fighters do which is avoid the styles and talent level that give him big problems. I like him but to say he has always taken the most competitive fight out there for his entire career is misleading and he hasn't faced as many different styles as guys like cotto, moseley, De la Hoya, and mayweather have faced. I think he still has a little bit to prove before putting him above mosely, DLH and mayweather because while he did face three guys that many consider great fighters in his prior weight division these three guys were of similar talent level and stature marquez and morales used similar styles against him while the 4 guys i've stated above have faced a myriad of different styles and have all shown pretty good resilience against them. I'm open to a debate on this though what do you guys think about that?

[JAB5239]

A post prime Morales, Hatton, and flat out over the hill DLH were never the best fighters. Stop bringing up Floyd, this is about Pac. Guzman would have been the 3rd best fighter, given prime status, Pac ever faced. This is not remotely debatable to me.

First off, you're not answering my questions. Second, I won't stop bringing up Floyd because you want to criticize one fighter yet give him a pass. And third, who did Guzman ever fight to establish himself as this force that Pac avoided? You're slamming Pac for not fighting him yet he hasn't taken on anywhere near close to the comp Pac has fought.

And chalk up my boy Zahir Raheem as yet another slick guy Pac avoided. Morales, with the last shred of greatness left in his body, beat Pac. Then he lost to Rahim, and was clearly done as a top fighter at that point. What does Pac do? He fights Morales 2 more times and never even considers Raheem.

The same Raheem who lost to Rocky Juarez and Acelino Frietas? Lol, Pac avoided him?

[Obama]

Freitas robbed Raheem but that's besides the point. The point is Raheem vs Morales happened on the same card as Pac vs Velazquez. Both Morales and Pac were expected to win, and this would set up a second meeting between the two. Pac won his bout, but Morales ended up losing a fight deemed upset of the year by Ring Magazine (an upset I predicted no less). So what happens? Pac just goes ahead and fights Morales anyways in a shameless fight for the money that proved nothing. The only historically significant fight between Pac and Morales is the first one, the one Morales won. Even if Pac needed some kind of personal satisfaction in avenging a loss, his next fight should have been Raheem. Did it happen? No...he just fights Morales again. He even takes another fight in between against Oscar Larios, so it's not like every fight he has was a money fight at this point.

But because Freitas robbed Raheem it made him an unacceptable opponent. Riiiiiiight.

As for Guzman, he beat Soto, the current #1 SFW in the world. His status as a top fighter is not up for debate. As for him not proving himself worthy for Pac, you can't be serious. Guzman and Pac were both SBWs back in 2001. Pac didn't prove himself as a top fighter until he beat Barrera at the end of 2003, in the FW division. Who were these more credible fighters Pac was beating at SBW that caused him to ignore Guzman?

Pac goes life and death with a good counter puncher (Marquez). Him not fighting slick fighters is no coincidence. He's also never fought a fighter with fast hands. He's also never fought a defensive wizard. The guys exposure to styles is far from diverse. It's no coincidence, and that's the bottom line.

[JAB5239]

Pac goes life and death with a good counter puncher (Marquez). Him not fighting slick fighters is no coincidence. He's also never fought a fighter with fast hands. He's also never fought a defensive wizard. The guys exposure to styles is far from diverse. It's no coincidence, and that's the bottom line.

Why were none of these so called slick fighters ever the best in their divisions once Pacquiao came to boxing prominence? You're trying to say Pac avoided them even though he took on the best, but make the excuse that Floyd has fought all styles even though he doesn't fight the best. Can you not see the double standard you're applying?

[Obama]

Why were none of these so called slick fighters ever the best in their divisions once Pacquiao came to boxing prominence? You're trying to say Pac avoided them even though he took on the best, but make the excuse that Floyd has fought all styles even though he doesn't fight the best. Can you not see the double standard you're applying?

All I see is you not understanding what I'm typing. Casa and Campbell were better than David Diaz, and still are. So much for Pac fighting the best LW. Guzman was better than anyone Pac faced at SBW. So much for there to.

Already went over the Raheem issue, either it sunk in or it didn't. He was a SFW.

Hatton hasn't been the best at JWW for a while despite holding onto the title, and after Lamont Peterson pulls the upset I expect him to, the JWW will have another top slick fighter that Pacquiao won't fight.

As for Floyd, he fought the best at 130 and 135, wanted to fight the best at 140 but was ducked, and is about to fight the best at 147 now. But like I said before, this thread has nothing to do with Floyd.