Is Manny Pacquiao an all-time great?

[JAB5239]

Poor excuse to duck Guzman. Pac chased fighters in other divisions while Guzman was always in his.

Guzman wasn't always in his. And even if he was, why wasn't he facing the Morales', Barrera's and JMM's? You're riding Manny for not fighting Guzman, but who was Guzman fighting?

Let's not bring Floyd into a Pac thread. Floyd fought every type of fighter there is. He isn't untested against any fighting style. I didn't call Pac an avoider of quality opponents, I called him an avoider of slick boxing styles.

Saying Floyd fought every type of fighter doesn't excuse him from not making fights against the best fighters now. Pacquiao has consistently moved up to take on the best fighters. If the best fighters didn't happen to be slick, how is that Manny's fault?

[Obama]

A post prime Morales, Hatton, and flat out over the hill DLH were never the best fighters. Stop bringing up Floyd, this is about Pac. Guzman would have been the 3rd best fighter, given prime status, Pac ever faced. This is not remotely debatable to me.

And chalk up my boy Zahir Raheem as yet another slick guy Pac avoided. Morales, with the last shred of greatness left in his body, beat Pac. Then he lost to Rahim, and was clearly done as a top fighter at that point. What does Pac do? He fights Morales 2 more times and never even considers Raheem.

[StarshipTrooper]

Saying Floyd fought every type of fighter doesn't excuse him from not making fights against the best fighters now. Pacquiao has consistently moved up to take on the best fighters. If the best fighters didn't happen to be slick, how is that Manny's fault?

And who the hell is Guzman anyway? He's hardly a name that comes up when people talk about "must be made" fights. And since when is "slick" the end-all and be-all of boxing? Slick doesn't "best": It's just another syle of fighting and nothing more.

Poet

[talip bin osman]

reading obama's posts makes me feel like im reading flawless'... obama is like flawless on steroids...

anyway, maybe it was hard for manny pacquiao to say no to oscar de la hoya when oscar offered him to fight him...

who needs zahir when u hav the opportunity to fight the most bankable boxing star of all time?

i think even the great joan guzman himself would not hesitate to fight oscar if he were to trade places with MP that time...

[mrboxer]

no he is not an all time great, in his weight classes though,i have him in the top 20 alltime

[Obama]

You guys are missing the point. I'm not saying Pac made poor business decisions. I'm merely saying he's failed to showcase the range of his skills because his opposition lacks diversity. And when you measure how great a fighter is, if they lack diversity in opposition, it is a detriment to their evaluation. Simple as that really.

Not everyone looks great against everybody, period. When a guy only fights guys he can look good against, it makes him seem better than he actually is, and causes people to delude themselves into rating the guy far higher than he ever should have been.

[Obama]

no he is not an all time great, in his weight classes though,i have him in the top 20 alltime

And what exactly is "his weight class".

[StarshipTrooper]

When a guy only fights guys he can look good against,

You mean like Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

it makes him seem better than he actually is,

You mean like Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

and causes people to delude themselves into rating the guy far higher than he ever should have been.

You mean like Floyd Mayweather Jr's derranged nuthuggers?

Poet

[Obama]

Poet, your criticisms could be looked at with some kind of credibility if you didn't rate RJJ as a top 20 ATG. Clearly the biggest double standard of all time.

And Floyd didn't look good against everybody he fought. Castillo gave him hell, so did Augustus, and so did Judah b4 he gassed. Floyd fights fighters of all styles, Pac doesn't. Only point I had to make about Floyd this thread was that. Focus on Pac, not Floyd. You're all in love with Floyd and can't help it I know.

[StarshipTrooper]

Poet, your criticisms could be looked at with some kind of credibility if you didn't rate RJJ as a top 20 ATG. Clearly the biggest double standard of all time.

And some people think I don't rate Roy Jones high enough especially since they consider him the most gifted fighter to ever lace them up. I'm certainly not going to drop him in the ratings to please the likes of YOU.

And Floyd didn't look good against everybody he fought. Castillo gave him hell, so did Augustus, and so did Judah b4 he gassed. Floyd fights fighters of all styles, Pac doesn't.

Correction: Floyd throws 30 potshots a round and runs like ****.....that's not "fighting".

Only point I had to make about Floyd this thread was that. Focus on Pac, not Floyd. You're all in love with Floyd and can't help it I know.

Just because YOU swing on Fraud Gayweather's nutsack doesn't mean everyone does.

Poet