Joe Jennette vs. Jack Johnson 1913

[travestyny]

Not with you I won't. Sorry.

Dont' be sorry. Just comes across real cowardly to me

[ShoulderRoll]

It seems like certain posters are dead set on pushing their negative Jack Johnson narrative.

And will just ignore facts if they inconveniently get in the way.

[Willie Pep 229]

Lol !

[Dr. Z]

Dont' be sorry. Just comes across real cowardly to me

You will not answer my questions. But try this simple one. Do you think Jack Johnson rates among the top ten heavyweights of all time ( head to head ) and who did he beat? Pay close attention to the ages and heavyweight experience level of his opponets. And don't foget to factor his numersous losses and draws.

[travestyny]

You will not answer my questions. But try this simple one. Do you think Jack Johnson rates among the top ten heavyweights of all time ( head to head ) and who did he beat? Pay close attention to the ages and heavyweight experience level of his opponets. And don't foget to factor his numersous losses and draws.

That's an easy one. Yes, I believe he rates among the top ten heavyweights of all time.

As for who he beat...Langford, McVey, Jeannette, Jeffries, Burns, Flynn, Moran, Jim Johnson.....


Ok, now my turn.

If Jeffries only got about $9000 to fight Munroe and the fighting audience made it clear that they wanted Jeffries to fight Johnson instead of Munroe, why didn't Jeffries agree to fight Johnson for the title? Keep in mind that he fought Black fighters before.

[Dr. Z]

That's an easy one. Yes, I believe he rates among the top ten heavyweights of all time.

As for who he beat...Langford, McVey, Jeannette, Jeffries, Burns, Flynn, Moran, Jim Johnson.....


Ok, now my turn.

If Jeffries only got about $9000 to fight Munroe and the fighting audience made it clear that they wanted Jeffries to fight Johnson instead of Munroe, why didn't Jeffries agree to fight Johnson for the title? Keep in mind that he fought Black fighters before.

LOL

He beat Langford at 20 years old listed at 156, but Sam says he was in the 139 for that fight.

He beat teenage and very green Sam Mcvey at 18-19 year old.

He beat Jeannette who had no amautuer exoerience and sported a losing record at times when he meet Johnson, beating him once and drawing other times.

He beat Jeffires but Jeffires had not fought in 6 years and was old and rusty. The win needs an *.


If Johnson had meet these men in there primes he would have more losses on his resume.


He did beat a prime Tommy Burns which rates as his best win. KUDODS but Burns was 5'7" 168 pounds, a Super Middle weight

He was won via DQ vs Flynn . And he clinched and held throughout the fight. I've seen it.

He should have lost not drawn with the journeyman Jim Johnson. He was almost knocked out.

Yeah he edged Moran who lost muliple times. And he fouled and huged him him throughout the fight.


That is who he fought. Some resume. Ha. I told you to pay attention to his numerous losses and draws Easy for a " top ten heavyweight of all times " right?


Jeffries offered Johnson private fight for free and said he would not draw files which he did not fight for any BIG purses prior to Burns which was a measly $5,000. Johnson walked from that offer. Look it up. Jeffries would have made more in a Jeffries vs. Hart / Johnson ( I think ) in 1905...but Johnson lost to Hart lost in March that year and he blew his chances. There was no 1910 purse for Jeffries. Had Johhson fogut Jeffries as offered he coukd have lied to the press about the result or has he beaten Hart for the elimination match to fight Jeffires, but he failed to do so.

His also lost to Klon***e, Choysnki and Girfiin not to mention numerous draws while Jeffries was champion form 1899-1905. The press offer wasn't as much for Jeffries who made much larger amount vs Fitz in 1902 and Corbett in 1903. Those are facts. Embrace them. There are reasons why Munore was chosen, mainly becase he used the press and lied about a 4 round exhibition match which he was dropped twice.

Happy now? I added some detail to better explian your reply.

[travestyny]

LOL

He beat Langford at 20 years old listed at 156, but Sam says he was in the 139 for that fight.

He beat teenage and very green Sam Mcvey at 18-19 year old.

He beat Jeannette who had no amautuer exoerience and sported a losing record at times when he meet Johnson, beating him once and drawing other times.

He beat Jeffires but Jeffires had not fought in 6 years and was old and rusty. The win needs an *.


If Johnson had meet these men in there primes he would have more losses on his resume.


He did beat a prime Tommy Burns which rates as his best win. KUDODS but Burns was 5'7" 168 pounds, a Super Middle weight

He was won via DQ vs Flynn . And he clinched and held throughout the fight. I've seen it.

He should have lost not drawn with the journeyman Jim Johnson. He was almost knocked out.

Yeah he edged Moran who lost muliple times. And he fouled and huged him him throughout the fight.


That is who he fought. Some resume. Ha. I told you to pay attention to his numerous losses and draws Easy for a " top ten heavyweight of all times " right?


Jeffries offered Johnson private fight for free and said he would not draw files which he did not fight for any BIG purses prior to Burns which was a measly $5,000. Johnson walked from that offer. Look it up. Jeffries would have made more in a Jeffries vs. Hart / Johnson ( I think ) in 1905...but Johnson lost to Hart lost in March that year and he blew his chances. There was no 1910 purse for Jeffries. Had Johhson fogut Jeffries as offered he coukd have lied to the press about the result or has he beaten Hart for the elimination match to fight Jeffires, but he failed to do so.

His also lost to Klon***e, Choysnki and Girfiin not to mention numerous draws while Jeffries was champion form 1899-1905. The press offer wasn't as much for Jeffries who made much larger amount vs Fitz in 1902 and Corbett in 1903. Those are facts. Embrace them. There are reasons why Munore was chosen, mainly becase he used the press and lied about a 4 round exhibition match which he was dropped twice.

Happy now? I added some detail to better explian your reply.

Dude, you didn't ask me to give YOUR opinion, right? You asked for mine and you got it.

I can do the same thing you just did with Jeffries, who clearly ranks below Johnson.


I specifically said why Jeffries didn't fight him for the title. And I said why didn't he fight him instead of Munroe. You want to try again?


The only thing you said relevant was "because Munroe lied about him." That's a lame excuse. That may be why he fought Munroe, but not why he fought him instead of Johnson. I'm sure he cared more about money than lying so there must have been a better reason. Hart has nothing to do with it since Jeffries admit he wouldn’t fight Johnson even if he won that fight.

Jeffries admit he didn’t want to lose the title to a Black man. Correct?

[Dr. Z]

Dude, you didn't ask me to give YOUR opinion, right? You asked for mine and you got it.

I can do the same thing you just did with Jeffries, who clearly ranks below Johnson.


I specifically said why Jeffries didn't fight him for the title. And I said why didn't he fight him instead of Munroe. You want to try again?


The only thing you said relevant was "because Munroe lied about him." That's a lame excuse. That may be why he fought Munroe, but not why he fought him instead of Johnson. I'm sure he cared more about money than lying so there must have been a better reason. Hart has nothing to do with it since Jeffries admit he wouldn’t fight Johnson even if he won that fight.

Jeffries admit he didn’t want to lose the title to a Black man. Correct?

Yes you did give me you " opinion " which leaves out facts doesn't fully understad Jeffires purses and net from them, and does not examine the records and ages of the fighters. Did I miss anything?

Jeffries was so affird of losing his linal title to Johnnon ( who was African Ameiercan ) he fogut him at his worst. And many still considered Jeffries as the champion bwcause he never lost it, or lost at all in the ring.

Sure - sure Johnson won that fight! Why don't you read Joshnon bigget living fan histroian Adam Pollack's book and ask him if Johsnon won that fight!


Once again...



He beat Langford at 20 years old listed at 156, but Sam says he was in the 139 for that fight.

He beat teenage and very green Sam Mcvey at 18-19 year old.

He beat Jeannette who had no amautuer exoerience and sported a losing record at times when he meet Johnson, beating him once and drawing other times.

He beat Jeffires but Jeffires had not fought in 6 years and was old and rusty. The win needs an *.


If Johnson had meet these men in there primes he would have more losses on his resume.


He did beat a prime Tommy Burns which rates as his best win. KUDODS but Burns was 5'7" 168 pounds, a Super Middle weight

He was won via DQ vs Flynn . And he clinched and held throughout the fight. I've seen it.

He should have lost not drawn with the journeyman Jim Johnson. He was almost knocked out.

Yeah he edged Moran who lost muliple times. And he fouled and huged him him throughout the fight.


That is who he fought. Some resume. Ha. I told you to pay attention to his numerous losses and draws Easy for a " top ten heavyweight of all times " right?


Jeffries offered Johnson private fight for free and said he would not draw files which he did not fight for any BIG purses prior to Burns which was a measly $5,000. Johnson walked from that offer. Look it up. Jeffries would have made more in a Jeffries vs. Hart / Johnson ( I think ) in 1905...but Johnson lost to Hart lost in March that year and he blew his chances. There was no 1910 purse for Jeffries. Had Johhson fogut Jeffries as offered he coukd have lied to the press about the result or has he beaten Hart for the elimination match to fight Jeffires, but he failed to do so.

His also lost to Klon***e, Choysnki and Girfiin not to mention numerous draws while Jeffries was champion form 1899-1905. The press offer wasn't as much for Jeffries who made much larger amount vs Fitz in 1902 and Corbett in 1903. Those are facts. Embrace them. There are reasons why Munore was chosen, mainly becase he used the press and lied about a 4 round exhibition match which he was dropped twice.

Happy now? I added some detail to better explain your reply.

[travestyny]

Yes you did give me you " opinion " which leaves out facts doesn't fully understad Jeffires purses and net from them, and does not examine the records and ages of the fighters. Did I miss anything?

Jeffries was so affird of losing his linal title to Johnnon ( who was African Ameiercan ) he fogut him at his worst. And many still considered Jeffries as the champion bwcause he never lost it, or lost at all in the ring.

Sure - sure Johnson won that fight! Why don't you read Joshnon bigget living fan histroian Adam Pollack's book and ask him if Johsnon won that fight!


Once again...



He beat Langford at 20 years old listed at 156, but Sam says he was in the 139 for that fight.

He beat teenage and very green Sam Mcvey at 18-19 year old.

He beat Jeannette who had no amautuer exoerience and sported a losing record at times when he meet Johnson, beating him once and drawing other times.

He beat Jeffires but Jeffires had not fought in 6 years and was old and rusty. The win needs an *.


If Johnson had meet these men in there primes he would have more losses on his resume.


He did beat a prime Tommy Burns which rates as his best win. KUDODS but Burns was 5'7" 168 pounds, a Super Middle weight

He was won via DQ vs Flynn . And he clinched and held throughout the fight. I've seen it.

He should have lost not drawn with the journeyman Jim Johnson. He was almost knocked out.

Yeah he edged Moran who lost muliple times. And he fouled and huged him him throughout the fight.


That is who he fought. Some resume. Ha. I told you to pay attention to his numerous losses and draws Easy for a " top ten heavyweight of all times " right?

All I see you saying is that he beat this person and that person. Yea, that's what he was supposed to do.

He beat guys that your guy Jeffries wouldn't fight, like McVea. Same version of McVea he beat was the same version of McVea your guy wouldn't go near.

And once again, Johnson ranks higher than your guy Jeffries for sure. Jeffries knew he couldn't have won and that's why he wanted no part of him, in my opinion.

Jeffries offered Johnson private fight for free and said he would not draw files which he did not fight for any BIG purses prior to Burns which was a measly $5,000. Johnson walked from that offer. Look it up. Jeffries would have made more in a Jeffries vs. Hart / Johnson ( I think ) in 1905...but Johnson lost to Hart lost in March that year and he blew his chances. There was no 1910 purse for Jeffries. Had Johhson fogut Jeffries as offered he coukd have lied to the press about the result or has he beaten Hart for the elimination match to fight Jeffires, but he failed to do so.

His also lost to Klon***e, Choysnki and Girfiin not to mention numerous draws while Jeffries was champion form 1899-1905. The press offer wasn't as much for Jeffries who made much larger amount vs Fitz in 1902 and Corbett in 1903. Those are facts. Embrace them. There are reasons why Munore was chosen, mainly becase he used the press and lied about a 4 round exhibition match which he was dropped twice.

Happy now? I added some detail to better explain your reply.

I don't know why you bring up a "private fight" as if that means anything Your boy refused to fight for the title. And we know why. He told us why. He didn't want to lose his title to a black man.

You keep ignoring the facts. Hart had nothing to do with this. I already proved Jeffries said he wouldn't fight Johnson even if he beat Hart.


All you did was repeat yourself in this post and duck everything I said. Your boy didn't want to fight Johnson because he didn't want to lose the title to a Black man. See for yourself!!!! He was afraid he would lose!!!!!

[Dr. Z]

@ travesty,

What fightes say and do changes with a big purse. I could fill a forum with fighter's saying one thing then doing a complete 180 in the headlines. Obviously Johnson was a contender for a brief time in 1903-1904 when Jeffires was active but there wasn't a big purse for the fight. And when the big purse was there in 1910 he magicaly chaged his views like all fighters do.

The Hart loss took Joshnon and his purse potential way down. Before then he was not vauled as much as Fitz and Corbett were in 1902-1903.

THE END.