Is Floyd Patterson a top 20 all time great heavyweight ?

[Ivich]

I have read some but I have not seen a historian level person write a book or specialize in him. He is not on film today ( I think ) though presumably he was filmed. Nor have I seen any boxing lists of McCarty that rates him good enough to be a 20 top all time heavyweight.

He was a young man coming in to his own with a good jab, good power, and a study chin and for his time was a big heavyweight. He stood over 6'2" and had an 80 " reach weighing 200-205 pounds. And he would have put on more weight and he lived. These are rare numbers for a heavyweight back then. Some consider him to be the best of the " white hope's " in time of boxing where the men who received total shots were mostly awful. I think Gunboat Smith who knocked Johnson flat on his back to the point where he was dazed and saw stars, with his manger halting the 4 round exhibition match in 1909 was more accomplished. But we never saw that fight for the title. McCarty was only 21 when he died and really coming into his own. Perhaps he would defeat Johnson who he had a verbal agreement with. That meant nothing as Johnson backed out if a signed contact to fight Langford and avoided other matches by known promoters to meet Langford and Jeannette. Multiple offers by various porters were made. Draw your own conclusions.

I have noted that McCarthy beat Johnson title opponents KO ing Flynn, and Kaufman. He savaged Frank Moran and drew with Jess Willard. All of which and better results than Johnson did himself! Well, maybe not Flynn as Johnson Ko'd him sooner. Johnson selected his McCary victims for title shots, but not him. Hmmm... Anyway he could have beaten Johnson in late 1914-1915 before Willard! I think he would have. What could have been for his career.

Like I said the young man was coming into his own. Incidentally if your last name is McCarty do not try boxing as there have been six ring fatalities under than name....so I was told

Here is his box rec page.

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/39623

McCarty had no verbal agreement with Johnson,they never communicated.Johnson telegrammed Tommy Burns offering to defend his title against McCarty in Canada where fugitive Johnson would be safe from arrest.Burns having Arthur Pelkey as his meal ticket wanted Pelkey to fight McCarty for the so called White Championship,so he naturally did not want Johnson killing off that fight by demolishing McCarty.Burns gave the excuse that promoting Johnson "would not be in the best interests of boxing," what he actually meant was it would not be in the best interests of Tommy Burns!
Johnson was so dazed in his spar with Smith that he sparred a further 6 rds with 3 different sparring partners afterwards .At least this time you didnt claim it was a tko loss for Johnson, as you have been doing for over a decade!
Don't you get tired of repeating the same lies,month after month, year after year? I guess not!

[QueensburyRules]

McCarty had no verbal agreement with Johnson,they never communicated.Johnson telegrammed Tommy Burns offering to defend his title against McCarty in Canada where fugitive Johnson would be safe from arrest.Burns having Arthur Pelkey as his meal ticket wanted Pelkey to fight McCarty for the so called White Championship,so he naturally did not want Johnson killing off that fight by demolishing McCarty.Burns gave the excuse that promoting Johnson "would not be in the best interests of boxing," what he actually meant was it would not be in the best interests of Tommy Burns!
Johnson was so dazed in his spar with Smith that he sparred a further 6 rds with 3 different sparring partners afterwards .At least this time you didnt claim it was a tko loss for Johnson, as you have been doing for over a decade!
Don't you get tired of repeating the same lies,month after month, year after year? I guess not!

- - Lucky to have got out of boxing when you did...

Luther McCarty Willing To Meet Johnson

White Champion Ready To Face The Black Title Holder

Johnson’s statement that he would fight Luther McCarty of Nebraska, white champion of the world, providing he could get permission from Judge Carpenter’s jurisdiction of the court…

Johnson’s proffer of a fight was immediately transmitted to Billy McCarney, manager of Luther McCarty, the white champion, who is training in Calgary, Alberta, for his match there on May 24, with Arthur Pelkey of New England, for the white heavyweight title.

“McCarty has signed for no battles after May 24…he would gladly declare everything except this Pelkey match off on the spot if assured a meeting with Johnson. Further, I want to say that right now McCarty is Johnson’s master, and would beat him sure.”

-Milwaukee Free Press. May 17, 1913

[Dr. Z]

- - Lucky to have got out of boxing when you did...

Luther McCarty Willing To Meet Johnson

White Champion Ready To Face The Black Title Holder

Johnson’s statement that he would fight Luther McCarty of Nebraska, white champion of the world, providing he could get permission from Judge Carpenter’s jurisdiction of the court…

Johnson’s proffer of a fight was immediately transmitted to Billy McCarney, manager of Luther McCarty, the white champion, who is training in Calgary, Alberta, for his match there on May 24, with Arthur Pelkey of New England, for the white heavyweight title.

“McCarty has signed for no battles after May 24…he would gladly declare everything except this Pelkey match off on the spot if assured a meeting with Johnson. Further, I want to say that right now McCarty is Johnson’s master, and would beat him sure.”

-Milwaukee Free Press. May 17, 1913

Ivich is the king of double standards, who does not apply the same logic to his guys. He lies. He has his own reasons why. These are the facts. If two men had a verbal agreement to fight is debatable, but the press release is not. And by the way Gunboat Smith TKO'd him in sparring in a 4 round match. " Johnson was down and dazed, his manger had to halt the action. I call that a TKO. I could post the news clip. There is no proof that Johnson gave others work in the ring that day after that.

[Ivich]

- - Lucky to have got out of boxing when you did...

Luther McCarty Willing To Meet Johnson

White Champion Ready To Face The Black Title Holder

Johnson’s statement that he would fight Luther McCarty of Nebraska, white champion of the world, providing he could get permission from Judge Carpenter’s jurisdiction of the court…

Johnson’s proffer of a fight was immediately transmitted to Billy McCarney, manager of Luther McCarty, the white champion, who is training in Calgary, Alberta, for his match there on May 24, with Arthur Pelkey of New England, for the white heavyweight title.

“McCarty has signed for no battles after May 24…he would gladly declare everything except this Pelkey match off on the spot if assured a meeting with Johnson. Further, I want to say that right now McCarty is Johnson’s master, and would beat him sure.”

-Milwaukee Free Press. May 17, 1913

McCarty had no verbal agreement with Johnson,they never communicated. Johnson intended to fight McCarty in Canada why would he need permission from anyone? The half wit giving your post a like has for years denied Johnson ever made any overtures to defend against McCarty.

[Marchegiano]

I don't honestly get the McCarty love. I noticed his name in lists and just shrugged at it. Just some random neverwas as far as I'm concerned.

[Ivich]

Ivich is the king of double standards, who does not apply the same logic to his guys. He lies. He has his own reasons why. These are the facts. If two men had a verbal agreement to fight is debatable, but the press release is not. And by the way Gunboat Smith TKO'd him in sparring in a 4 round match. " Johnson was down and dazed, his manger had to halt the action. I call that a TKO. I could post the news clip. There is no proof that Johnson gave others work in the ring that day after that.

News Flash you cannot be tko'd in a sparring session.If you could Marciano would have a tko loss on his record to Toxie Hall because when Hall sparred with Marciano,[for the ****ell fight,]Hall dropped him with a left hook and Charlie Goldman told Marciano to go take a shower.

". After sparring with Smith,Johnson went 2 rds with a Los Angeles light weight called Arslinger,followed by2 rds with middleweight Johnny O Keefe,then Bob Armstrong, who had recovered from his recent injury worked 2 rds with Johnson."
PS Johnson completed the 4 scheduled rounds with Smith before sparring further,its in the book!
" Johnson The Reign" Adam Pollack Chapter 6, pages 174,175
That proof enough for you,you half wit?

[Willie Pep 229]

McCarty had no verbal agreement with Johnson,they never communicated. Johnson intended to fight McCarty in Canada why would he need permission from anyone? The half wit giving your post a like has for years denied Johnson ever made any overtures to defend against McCarty.

Just a guess . . . Maybe Johnson thought if he could arrange a big fight with McCarty an independent (midwest) judge just might give him the amnesty or legal stay necessary to fight despite his conviction for the Mann Act.

Who knows, maybe even a bribe was on the table. LOL

Strange I know, but convicted (and on appeal) Muhammad Ali got licensed to fight Quarry (I) in Georgia (1970) before the Supreme Court officially overturned his conviction in June 1971.

Then once Ali was fighting again, New York just couldn't bear the thought of Ali NOT fighting in New York and immediately lifted its ban as well.

Ali fought Quarry (I), Bonavena, and Frazier (I) all while he was still a convicted draft dodger.

(But I should note he was still on appeal, Johnson wasn't.)

Sometimes you can make a federal system work for you when you can convince local authorities to buck the national (federal) government's court decisions. Something the Southern States often did.

But that's not probably what happen.

I would like to know what Johnson was thinking when he spoke of looking for permission from a Nebraska judge.

[QueensburyRules]

McCarty had no verbal agreement with Johnson,they never communicated. Johnson intended to fight McCarty in Canada why would he need permission from anyone? The half wit giving your post a like has for years denied Johnson ever made any overtures to defend against McCarty.

- - If you read the account of JJohnson incognito train trip as part of Rube Foster's black barnstorming baseball team into Canada, he was worried about extradition. All the US had to do was ask Canada to hand JJ over to US authorities, a done deal.

Get thee a drill for your thick skull, Johnson publicly expressed interest in Luck, and McCarty publicly responded they would be most interested in that fight, a HUGE fight for boxing and fight fans. Only reason it didn't come off was Luck's inexplicable death.

Irrelevant bait...

[Ivich]

- - If you read the account of JJohnson incognito train trip as part of Rube Foster's black barnstorming baseball team into Canada, he was worried about extradition. All the US had to do was ask Canada to hand JJ over to US authorities, a done deal.

Get thee a drill for your thick skull, Johnson publicly expressed interest in Luck, and McCarty publicly responded they would be most interested in that fight, a HUGE fight for boxing and fight fans. Only reason it didn't come off was Luck's inexplicable death.

Irrelevant bait...

Johnson did not join Rube Fosters team ,or impersonate a player to leave the US that is pure fiction,long ago dismissed. Canada had no extradition treaty with the US.That's why Sitting Bull and what was left of his tribe headed for it!

Johnson made the offer to Burns to fight McCarty in Canada.
Please,please do some real research!

[QueensburyRules]

Johnson did not join Rube Fosters team ,or impersonate a player to leave the US that is pure fiction,long ago dismissed. Canada had no extradition treaty with the US.That's why Sitting Bull and what was left of his tribe headed for it!

Johnson made the offer to Burns to fight McCarty in Canada.
Please,please do some real research!

- - You need a rock drill for your numbskull.

Sitting Bull was not a US citizen, he belonged to the Sioux tribe that originated in Canadian territories. I don't know about Post 911 policy, but they passed seamlessly across the Candian border then and before there was a Canada.

Don't matter where JJ wanted the fight, he clearly asked in his moment with considerably more knowledge of what he needed, and that was asking permission from the judge assigned to his case. He feared extradition, full stop.

Until I see evidence contrary, JJ rejoined Rube Foster's team for his incognito Canadian adventure.

Now, don't you have some snails you can kick around before dispatching in the frying pan?