Is Floyd Patterson a top 20 all time great heavyweight ?

[Dr. Z]

Meh, favorites. Do lists such as this ever reflect anything else?

Mine do. I may take it a bit more serious than you do. You don't have to explain your choices for Wilder and McCarty. I was hoping you would reveal something I was not aware of, especially on L. McCarthy.

[GhostofDempsey]

Patterson was a small HW who was never the same after the two Liston KOs and the fight with Chuvalo. On his best night he could beat several fighters on a top 20 all-time HW list, and they could beat him as well. That still doesn't put him in my all-time 20, but he's close.

[Ivich]

Patterson was a small HW who was never the same after the two Liston KOs and the fight with Chuvalo. On his best night he could beat several fighters on a top 20 all-time HW list, and they could beat him as well. That still doesn't put him in my all-time 20, but he's close.

I'm sorry to disagree,I think Floyd's post Liston wins over,Machen,Bonavena, Cooper his draw with Quarry,and his highly controversial loss to Ellis ,compare very favourably to his pre Liston wins.
The rest of your post I agree with.

[GhostofDempsey]

I'm sorry to disagree,I think Floyd's post Liston wins over,Machen,Bonavena, Cooper his draw with Quarry,and his highly controversial loss to Ellis ,compare very favourably to his pre Liston wins.
The rest of your post I agree with.

Patterson, like a lot of good fighters, was inconsistent. But I do feel the Chuvalo fight especially took something out of him, physically, the Liston fights mentally.

[Willow The Wisp]

Mine do. I may take it a bit more serious than you do. You don't have to explain your choices for Wilder and McCarty. I was hoping you would reveal something I was not aware of, especially on L. McCarthy.

Well ya. What have you read about Lute McCarty?

[Willie Pep 229]

Mine do. I may take it a bit more serious than you do. You don't have to explain your choices for Wilder and McCarty. I was hoping you would reveal something I was not aware of, especially on L. McCarthy.

With McCarthy it is often about potential lost to tragedy. Gets him bumped up often.

[Slugfester]

If boxing history had ended with the reign of Holmes, then I think probably. But if this poll includes heavyweight non-champions too, I think probably not.

[QueensburyRules]

With McCarthy it is often about potential lost to tragedy. Gets him bumped up often.

- - Obviously since Luck was just 21 years age holding a title with a verbal agreement to fight Jack Johnson, then confined in his Paris exile listening to Langford and Jeannette knocking on his door demanding a fight.

That's some serious pressure!

[Dr. Z]

Well ya. What have you read about Lute McCarty?

I have read some but I have not seen a historian level person write a book or specialize in him. He is not on film today ( I think ) though presumably he was filmed. Nor have I seen any boxing lists of McCarty that rates him good enough to be a 20 top all time heavyweight.

He was a young man coming in to his own with a good jab, good power, and a study chin and for his time was a big heavyweight. He stood over 6'2" and had an 80 " reach weighing 200-205 pounds. And he would have put on more weight and he lived. These are rare numbers for a heavyweight back then. Some consider him to be the best of the " white hope's " in time of boxing where the men who received total shots were mostly awful. I think Gunboat Smith who knocked Johnson flat on his back to the point where he was dazed and saw stars, with his manger halting the 4 round exhibition match in 1909 was more accomplished. But we never saw that fight for the title. McCarty was only 21 when he died and really coming into his own. Perhaps he would defeat Johnson who he had a verbal agreement with. That meant nothing as Johnson backed out if a signed contact to fight Langford and avoided other matches by known promoters to meet Langford and Jeannette. Multiple offers by various porters were made. Draw your own conclusions.

I have noted that McCarthy beat Johnson title opponents KO ing Flynn, and Kaufman. He savaged Frank Moran and drew with Jess Willard. All of which and better results than Johnson did himself! Well, maybe not Flynn as Johnson Ko'd him sooner. Johnson selected his McCary victims for title shots, but not him. Hmmm... Anyway he could have beaten Johnson in late 1914-1915 before Willard! I think he would have. What could have been for his career.

Like I said the young man was coming into his own. Incidentally if your last name is McCarty do not try boxing as there have been six ring fatalities under than name....so I was told

Here is his box rec page.

https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/39623

[DeeMoney]

By resume & accomplishment, or by who he could beat and who beats him?