Will Russia dominate boxing in the next decade?

[Willie Pep 229]

RE: BOLD BELOW --> hard to believe any of the boots on the ground would know anything was coming before Sec. of War Stimson.

I would argue that if they did know, that would have been very bad intelligence.


History.com

On April 24, Stimson and the army general in charge of the project, Leslie Groves, brought Truman a file full of reports and details on the Manhattan Project. They told Truman that although the U.S. was the only country with the resources to develop the bomb–eliminating fears that Germany was close to developing the weapon–the Russians could possibly have atomic weapons within four years. They discussed if, and with which allies, they should share the information and how the new weapon would affect U.S. foreign-policy decisions. Truman authorized the continuation of the project and agreed to form an interim committee that would advise the president on using the weapon.

Although the war in Europe ended in May 1945, Stimson advised Truman that the bomb might be useful in intimidating Soviet leader Joseph Stalin into curtailing post-war communist expansion into Eastern Europe. On July 16, the team of scientists at the Alamogordo, New Mexico, research station successfully exploded the first atomic bomb. Truman gave Stimson the handwritten order to release when ready but not sooner than August 2 on July 31, 1945.

The first bomb was exploded over Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, and a second was dropped on Nagasaki on August 9. The Japanese quickly surrendered. Although other nations have developed atomic weapons and nuclear technology since 1945, Truman remains the only world leader to have ever used an atomic bomb against an enemy.

[QueensburyRules]

"Nimitz, from whose jurisdiction the atomic strikes would be launched, was notified in early 1945."

You made a statement I proved it wrong.So what happens next?
You revert to type and begin making asinine personal comments.
Predictable,puerile , pathetic , churlish,childish ,chicken**** and absolutely .totally valueless!

Just like 99% of your content.

Shawn Kontempt's gone so ,one down, two to go. Dr Zenophobia and Queensbury Fool.

"Will you, won't you, will you , won't you, won't you join the dance?"

- - I'll take one of the most eminent biographers of his era in Will Manchester over any sordid precious claptrap by you that you keep hidden like Gollum.

I just read an internet article about a maritime slave rebellion for context to another bio I'm reading, and the PhewhD was near grade school laughable. Reminded me of YOU!

[QueensburyRules]

RE: BOLD BELOW --> hard to believe any of the boots on the ground would know anything was coming before Sec. of War Stimson.

I would argue that if they did know, that would have been very bad intelligence.


History.com

On April 24, Stimson and the army general in charge of the project, Leslie Groves, brought Truman a file full of reports and details on the Manhattan Project. They told Truman that although the U.S. was the only country with the resources to develop the bomb–eliminating fears that Germany was close to developing the weapon–the Russians could possibly have atomic weapons within four years. They discussed if, and with which allies, they should share the information and how the new weapon would affect U.S. foreign-policy decisions. Truman authorized the continuation of the project and agreed to form an interim committee that would advise the president on using the weapon.

Although the war in Europe ended in May 1945, Stimson advised Truman that the bomb might be useful in intimidating Soviet leader Joseph Stalin into curtailing post-war communist expansion into Eastern Europe. On July 16, the team of scientists at the Alamogordo, New Mexico, research station successfully exploded the first atomic bomb. Truman gave Stimson the handwritten order to release when ready but not sooner than August 2 on July 31, 1945.

The first bomb was exploded over Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, and a second was dropped on Nagasaki on August 9. The Japanese quickly surrendered. Although other nations have developed atomic weapons and nuclear technology since 1945, Truman remains the only world leader to have ever used an atomic bomb against an enemy.

- - Very much fits into the Manchester narrative. Good find. Stimson another great figure back then.

[Willie Pep 229]

Thought of something else.

In the film Jaws, Quint tells the Arizona-shark story. Based on some fact regarding the delivery of the bomb to the island Tinian (wherever the hell that is.)

The character claims no rescue ship came for two days because their mission was so secret that the Navy didn't know they were missing until the ship failed to appear at its dock date.

I wonder if this is true?

[QueensburyRules]

Thought of something else.

In the film Jaws, Quint tells the Arizona-shark story. Based on some fact regarding the delivery of the bomb to the island Tinian (wherever the hell that is.)

The character claims no rescue ship came for two days because their mission was so secret that the Navy didn't know they were missing until the ship failed to appear at its dock date.

I wonder if this is true?

Part of the Mariana Island chain due east of the Philipines and Taiwan north of New Guinea.
P3252618.jpg

ontheraks190201882.jpg

44d888a5a6d606c3c7ee7c98b9d0718b--tinian-island-ruins.jpg

[Ivich]

- - I'll take one of the most eminent biographers of his era in Will Manchester over any sordid precious claptrap by you that you keep hidden like Gollum.

I just read an internet article about a maritime slave rebellion for context to another bio I'm reading, and the PhewhD was near grade school laughable. Reminded me of YOU!

My info came from the Encyclopaedia Brittanica .Anyway Mr I stand corrected but without the cojones to admit it. Enough time has been spent on this.
ps It's Golem. Strike 4!

[Ivich]

Thought of something else.

In the film Jaws, Quint tells the Arizona-shark story. Based on some fact regarding the delivery of the bomb to the island Tinian (wherever the hell that is.)

The character claims no rescue ship came for two days because their mission was so secret that the Navy didn't know they were missing until the ship failed to appear at its dock date.

I wonder if this is true?

Robert Shaw, "Quint," provided that speech himself,as well as dominating the movie.

[Ivich]

RE: BOLD BELOW --> hard to believe any of the boots on the ground would know anything was coming before Sec. of War Stimson.

I would argue that if they did know, that would have been very bad intelligence.


History.com

On April 24, Stimson and the army general in charge of the project, Leslie Groves, brought Truman a file full of reports and details on the Manhattan Project. They told Truman that although the U.S. was the only country with the resources to develop the bomb–eliminating fears that Germany was close to developing the weapon–the Russians could possibly have atomic weapons within four years. They discussed if, and with which allies, they should share the information and how the new weapon would affect U.S. foreign-policy decisions. Truman authorized the continuation of the project and agreed to form an interim committee that would advise the president on using the weapon.

Although the war in Europe ended in May 1945, Stimson advised Truman that the bomb might be useful in intimidating Soviet leader Joseph Stalin into curtailing post-war communist expansion into Eastern Europe. On July 16, the team of scientists at the Alamogordo, New Mexico, research station successfully exploded the first atomic bomb. Truman gave Stimson the handwritten order to release when ready but not sooner than August 2 on July 31, 1945.

The first bomb was exploded over Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, and a second was dropped on Nagasaki on August 9. The Japanese quickly surrendered. Although other nations have developed atomic weapons and nuclear technology since 1945, Truman remains the only world leader to have ever used an atomic bomb against an enemy.

Whether you think the dropping of the bomb was justified or not.IMO the US wanted two things,to test it on a population ,and to use it as a big stick warning to Russia.
" I am become death,the destroyer of worlds."

[Willie Pep 229]

Whether you think the dropping of the bomb was justified or not.IMO the US wanted two things,to test it on a population ,and to use it as a big stick warning to Russia.
" I am become death,the destroyer of worlds."

I personally think wanting to test the bomb on a population was in the mix, but at the bottom of the to do list.

No doubt the white coat science type geeks wanted, as they called it, a ****** city (unbombed) so the could get the best information. I think that perversion goes to the white coat geeks alone not the politicians.

Today we like to say the bomb, was used to against Stalin, as a Cold War tactic to keep Stalin out of Eastern Europe. Two things about that don't work for me . . .

1. I don't believe they were thinking that far just yet.

2. FDR pretty much traded away Poland for a Russian promise to invade into China (Russian declaration of war on Japan) 90 days after Germany's surrender.

This for me is where the dropping of the second bomb becomes interesting and questionable.

I believe part of the motive for dropping both bombs was to keep Russia/Stalin out of Japan not Eastern Europe.

We had, IMO, already accepted the reality that Stalin was going to keep any 'war trophy' he liberated (his words).

Had we been forced into an invasion of the Japanese home islands between 1945-47, it would have likely have ended like Germany did, divided between the allies.

This is where the second bomb gets interesting.

As I said above, FDR had already 'winked away' Poland at Yalta, for a Russian promise of a declaration of war in 90 days. Well the damn 90th day came one day after the first bomb was dropped. Ironic!

Stalin immediately made good on his promise and attacked Manchuria.

Now this wasn't good. We knew the bomb would likely end the war but now there was a race to end it before Stalin could claim more war trophies, i.e. other nations, e.g. northern Korea.

We had insisted on 'unconditional' surrender at the Casablanca summit back in 1942 and now that was in our way. The Japs wanted one condition only, that we would spare the Emperor's life.

We said no and dropped a second bomb. The Japs still didn't move on the issue.

So fresh out of bombs (I believe Truman would have dropped more without hesitation) and with the white coat geeks saying the fastest they get could another bomb ready was 30 days, and with Stalin already in Manchuria we took the 'one condition' surrender deal.

One of the odd things that plays into the Cold War argument was you guys, the Brits, who cooperated by staying out of Japan.

No doubt the Brits were fighting the Japs long before the US got in and deserved to be part of the occupation of post-war Japan, as they were in Germany.

But because we didn't want Stalin on any of the Japanes Islands (if we could) we told the British to stay out of Japan as well, and made it exclusively an American occupation. Obviously it wasn’t the Btits we were trying to keep out but it made it much easier to say to Stalin, see just us, no Brits either.

Anyway, to say it shorter and more directly, I think the first bomb was a war measure, our rapid use of the second bomb was Cold War motivated.

[Ivich]

I personally think wanting to test the bomb on a population was in the mix, but at the bottom of the to do list.

No doubt the white coat science type geeks wanted, as they called it, a ****** city (unbombed) so the could get the best information. I think that perversion goes to the white coat geeks alone not the politicians.

Today we like to say the bomb, was used to against Stalin, as a Cold War tactic to keep Stalin out of Eastern Europe. Two things about that don't work for me . . .

1. I don't believe they were thinking that far just yet.

2. FDR pretty much traded away Poland for a Russian promise to invade into China (Russian declaration of war on Japan) 90 days after Germany's surrender.

This for me is where the dropping of the second bomb becomes interesting and questionable.

I believe part of the motive for dropping both bombs was to keep Russia/Stalin out of Japan not Eastern Europe.

We had, IMO, already accepted the reality that Stalin was going to keep any 'war trophy' he liberated (his words).

Had we been forced into an invasion of the Japanese home islands between 1945-47, it would have likely have ended like Germany did, divided between the allies.

This is where the second bomb gets interesting.

As I said above, FDR had already 'winked away' Poland at Yalta, for a Russian promise of a declaration of war in 90 days. Well the damn 90th day came one day after the first bomb was dropped. Ironic!

Stalin immediately made good on his promise and attacked Manchuria.

Now this wasn't good. We knew the bomb would likely end the war but now there was a race to end it before Stalin could claim more war trophies, i.e. other nations, e.g. northern Korea.

We had insisted on 'unconditional' surrender at the Casablanca summit back in 1942 and now that was in our way. The Japs wanted one condition only, that we would spare the Emperor's life.

We said no and dropped a second bomb. The Japs still didn't move on the issue.

So fresh out of bombs (I believe Truman would have dropped more without hesitation) and with the white coat geeks saying the fastest they get could another bomb ready was 30 days, and with Stalin already in Manchuria we took the 'one condition' surrender deal.

One of the odd things that plays into the Cold War argument was you guys, the Brits, who cooperated by staying out of Japan.

No doubt the Brits were fight the Japs long before the US got in and deserved to be part of the occupation of post-war Japan, as they were in Germany.

But because we didn't want Stalin on any of the Japanes Islands (if we could) we told the British to stay out of Japan as well, and made it exclusively an American occupation. Obviously it wasn’t the Btits we were trying to keep out but it made it much easier to say to Stalin, see just us, no Brits either.

Anyway, to say it shorter and more directly, I think the first bomb was a war measure, our rapid use of the second bomb was Cold War motivated.

Good post. Two of my Uncles were in Wingate's Chindits. The US could have dropped the bomb on an uninhabited island but chose not to. Given the way the Japs were fighting on the Islands its obvious the US would have suffered terrible casualties had they had to invade mainland Japan Nearly 80 years later , I'm not going to judge its use one way or another .