Did Jack Johnson participate in fixed fights?

[travestyny]

Consider the following:


1 ) He won 5 fights via disaquifaction ( an extremely high number and lost 1 when he low blowed Jeannette after a lively round one then Johnson went low in round two.

2 ) The Jim Scanlan fight, scheduled for 20 rounds, was halted in round 7 due to fouls and unclean breaks.


3 ) Sandy Ferguson, Ruled a no contest.

Referee McGuigan left the ring in round 5 because Johnson and Ferguson were deemed to be 'faking it "

4. Ferguson. DQ win.

Enraged by Johnson's insulting patter and left-hook to the belly, Ferguson took advantage of a bearhug by Johnson to drive his knee twice into his opponent's groin. Ferguson had taken the first two rounds, round three was even, but Johnson began driving home a wicked left hook to the stomach to take the fifth and sixth, and one or two may have strayed.

5. DQ Loss. Low blow.

According to the Philadelphia Item, Jeannette was winning the fight until he was fouled. Jeanntte had to be taken out of the ring in a stretcher.

6. Burke.

Johnson won the newspaper decision. (Fort Wayne Journal Gazette)Burke was knocked down for 9 counts at least once in every round amid cries of fake![According to Bob Edgren]

7. Kechel. Johnson admits the fight was arranged but the admission came after Ketchel was dead.

8. DQ win. Flynn. Bout halted in round nine, Flynn clearly butted but Johnson was guilty of excessive clinching.

9.Jim Johnson. Darw.

One ringside report said that the spectators loudly protested that the men were not fighting and demanded their money back. Jack Johnson said he injured his left arm in the third round and could not use it, but ringsiders said he used his left often and likely fractured it when both fell to the mat in the tenth round. Post-fight examination revealed a slight fracture of the radial in his left arm. In August it had been widely reported by Joe Woodman that Johnson had agreed to terms to fight Sam Langford in Paris. Weights per La Presse Tale of the Tape: 97kg Jack Johnson, 101kg Jim Johnson. The judging was suspect as two did declare a winner and the third voted for Balling Jim Johnson.

10. Thompson. Johnson low blowed him on his return trip to Havana.

"So bad was the bout that the boxing commissioner, sitting at the ringside, fined each fighter $500 for stalling. In the 10th round the referee left the ring (and replaced by promoter Sam Tolan), while a shower of cushions, pop bottles and other missiles were hurled at the boxers." Tacoma News Tribune. Wire Service report states no official decision was rendered.

11. H Smith.

ref:

George Rivett.

A "colossal burlesque, " was the general opinion of the 5, 000 assembled, with Smith taking the count of nine on several occasions "without apparently being hard hit." Johnson "did not take the fight seriously, other than from the box office end, and his much touted effort to stage a comeback fell by the wayside."

Montreal Gazette







12. Simmons.

The Ring reported that Johnson made a couple of 'voodoo' passes over Brad, who then went down. Both men were barred from ever again appearing in a Kansas ring. Iola Daily Register (KS)

What do you think? There is an awful lot of smoke around Johnson's fights.

I all honesty, this thread is an utterly ridiculous waste of space.

You seem to be confusing fouls with a fight being fixed for a number of your examples here. That's silly.

And other silliness. Why include the Ketchel fight? Did he fix it with is right hand or what?

The only fights that are su****ious enough to be on this list is one that was 4 years before he was champion, and two others that were a whopping 9 and 16 years after he lost the championship.

And only one of those fights seems to come close to being truly a fix...and that was his very last fight. 16 years after losing the championship.

So what's the point? Is it just to say he may have participated in a fixed fight? You going to do Dempsey next?

[Ivich]

- - JJohnson autobio bought by Nat can be had for the most authoritative JJ account of his career and life...

A two page confession is not an autobiography.and you have never read the article that Johnson sold to Fleischer , because it was never published.
Your silly attempt to cause more disruption on this spurious thread just adds to your rep as a trolling fool.
Its a shame, you have this compulsion,because you made a good post last week ,but one out of several hundred piles of excrement doesn't cut it.

[QueensburyRules]

A two page confession is not an autobiography.and you have never read the article that Johnson sold to Fleischer , because it was never published.
Your silly attempt to cause more disruption on this spurious thread just adds to your rep as a trolling fool.
Its a shame, you have this compulsion,because you made a good post last week ,but one out of several hundred piles of excrement doesn't cut it.

- - A double digit IQ profession by U ain't shyte on a shangle.

Has at least 2 autobios, this published in 1970 before Nat passed likely the cleaned up manuscript JJ gave Nat in exchange for $$$.

I've read excerpts from at least one of his autobios where he talks about Galveston and running off to join the circus in New York or other NE Yankee state, this being the most likely one..


30015688416.jpg

[Dr. Z]

I all honesty, this thread is an utterly ridiculous waste of space.

You seem to be confusing fouls with a fight being fixed for a number of your examples here. That's silly.

And other silliness. Why include the Ketchel fight? Did he fix it with is right hand or what?

The only fights that are su****ious enough to be on this list is one that was 4 years before he was champion, and two others that were a whopping 9 and 16 years after he lost the championship.

And only one of those fights seems to come close to being truly a fix...and that was his very last fight. 16 years after losing the championship.

So what's the point? Is it just to say he may have participated in a fixed fight? You going to do Dempsey next?

At least you say he had some su****ious fights. He did say he took a dive vs Willard ( false ) and had a deal with Ketchel which is a pre-determined outcome. He was in a lot of DQ's fouled a bit too much, more than ANY fighter I can think of. I say yes, he in least one fight and presented some of the known data.

[Ivich]

- - A double digit IQ profession by U ain't shyte on a shangle.

Has at least 2 autobios, this published in 1970 before Nat passed likely the cleaned up manuscript JJ gave Nat in exchange for $$$.

I've read excerpts from at least one of his autobios where he talks about Galveston and running off to join the circus in New York or other NE Yankee state, this being the most likely one..


30015688416.jpg

You post a dust jacket lol
You've read excerpts from at least one of his auto bios? Wow! You must be an expert then! Johnson gave Fleischer a signed confession ,not a manuscript You don't know WTF you're talking about ,but then you never do ,so no change there,Just Ground Hog Day again!
Autobiography? That book was published in Feb1969 Johnson died in1946!
Did he dictate it through a medium?lol

[Ivich]

I won’t take sides. Just stick to the evidence and keep personal attacks out. Readers can read and draw their own conclusions.

Here's some information regarding the Johnson v Ferguson February 6th 1904 fight in Philadelphia.
Jack McGuigan manager of the Philadelphia National AC had arranged for a main event between Kid Carter and Billy Stift on that date. Unfortunately McGiugan had arranged it through a 3 rd party who was less than reliable and when it came close to fight time Stift was completely unaware of the deal.
McGuigan then wired Sandy Ferguson who was in Boston to come as a last minute substitute for Stift.
Ferguson duly arrived, but on the night of the fight Carter refused to fight him saying he had agreed to meet Stift and nobody else.
McGuigan was now in a hole but spotting Johnson in the audience, he asked him if he would be prepared to step in meet Ferguson over 6 rds and save the show?
Johnson and Ferguson then had a conflab in the lobby and came to an agreement that neither would go all out in the 6 rounder but would put on a show. McGuigan offered to refund the money to anyone not satisfied with the last minute arrangement but only 2 people took him up on his offer
McGuigan refereed the fight himself and after 4 and a half rounds of less than exciting action he terminated the bout in the 5th rd by leaving the ring.
The Philly Inquirer said that Johnson had carried Ferguson and been careful not to hurt him. Ferguson said he had agreed to fight Carter and was in no condition to fight so big a fighter as Johnson and that he shouldn't have done so.That for the sake of some easy dough he had ruined his reputation in that town.
Getting his share of criticism from the press ,Johnson called the Philadelphia Record office to defend himself.
Johnson said that they had done the best they could under the circumstances,that both of them felt they were doing the promoter a favour by agreeing to go on at such short notice. Johnson said he'd no intention of fighting when he attended the promotion ,that he had just gotten back from Baltimore Johnson said he'd drunk a large quantity of water through the day and had just eaten a big supper which left him in no condition for a tough fight.
Johnson said he hadn't faked the bout that he had had plenty of opportunities to fake fights in California,fights in which he had been a hot favourite and could have cleaned up by faking. Johnson also said Ferguson was a big strong guy whom Gus Ruhlin couldn't stop in15 rds.

It seems to me and I might add Adam Pollack who has all the lowdown on this that Johnson had persuaded Ferguson to meet him by assuring him he would not try to stop him but would take it easy on him.

Johnson had already beaten Ferguson twice and would go on to beat him twice more. It seems a case of two fighters agreeing to step in and save a show as last minute subs,one having to be reassured that his superior opponent would take it easy on him ,the other having had a big supper that night and as a consequence ,not being able to put up the sort of show his abilities would have indicated he could have.


Sam Langford too k easy in several in several fights including ones with Wills , McVey,Thompson ,and Ketchel all parties settling for going through the motions.
Ray Robinson carried a few guys.

Muhammad Ali certainly carried a couple of opponents long enough for the TV companies to get some commercials in.

The man who made this thread has a well documented hatred of Johnson and is applying modern mores to situations that occurred over a hundred years ago solely with the intention of disparaging Johnson for his own warped satisfaction.
All the while ignoring the social and racial attitudes that were prevalent in the day,and the limited opportunities of blacks to make a decent living in boxing Johnson was 30 years old before he finally got his title chance, until then he, like other black fighters that were his contemporaries, picked up purses when and where they could.

[QueensburyRules]

You post a dust jacket lol
You've read excerpts from at least one of his auto bios? Wow! You must be an expert then! Johnson gave Fleischer a signed confession ,not a manuscript You don't know WTF you're talking about ,but then you never do ,so no change there,Just Ground Hog Day again!

- - I've read for umpteen years that JJohnson when released from prison where he likely did most of his writing gave Nat an autobio manuscript to publish for a cash exchange. Nat filed it, the end until later when the 1970 autobio appears.

I read excerpts from something published claiming to be an autobio, and given JJ been dead since the 40s, the only source known at that time was Nat. Could be JJ sold his manuscript to someone else also. He was a double dealer without scruples but of much higher intelligence than you who frankly don't half of what you slobber about.

[Ivich]

- - A double digit IQ profession by U ain't shyte on a shangle.

Has at least 2 autobios, this published in 1970 before Nat passed likely the cleaned up manuscript JJ gave Nat in exchange for $$$.

I've read excerpts from at least one of his autobios where he talks about Galveston and running off to join the circus in New York or other NE Yankee state, this being the most likely one..

30015688416.jpg

Read and learn!

Despite Fleischer’s certainty of Johnson’s integrity, the Post reported that, “Johnson came to Fleischer with a signed confession stating that he had ‘gone into the water’ for Willard. Nat paid him $250 for it, after the ex-champion had signed an agreement giving him the exclusive rights to publish the story. Fleischer put the document in his safe, where it has since gathered mildew. Fleischer says Johnson has since tried to buy back the ‘confession,’ because he can get a better price for it elsewhere.”

Nat refused to sell. He didn’t believe a word of it, and chose not to publish the confession to protect a boxer, and a sport, that he revered.

Fleischer never wrote a biography specifically about Jack Johnson, he wrote mini biographies of the leading black fighters, made them into a compilation and published them under the heading Black Dynamite the book currently sells for in excess of $1000.
Mes Combats a comic that Johnson haters like to quote,though most of them have never read it was published in France in 1914 whilst Johnson was still champion so when you have ******* like DR Z stating Johnson said he took a dive against Willard you wonder where their source is? Johnson in later life claimed to have dived in that fight,but the day after the fight he was most gracious to Willard stating he was beaten fair and square,and hewas on the dock to see Willard off on his return voyage to the US.


Everytime you post you make 2 and 2 into 5, its becoming drearily predictable.
Your other tag partner Dempsey says Johnson was illiterate and couldn't write lol.

[Willie Pep 229]

"gone into the water"

A new one for me; love it.

A dive
A high dive artist
In the tank
A tanker

In the water!

I saw a real one once, at a carnival in 1966, in Little Falls, New Jersey (home of Yogi Berra). Dove 35 feet into eight inches of water.

Guess it is an obsolete profession surviving only as a metaphor in prize fighting.

[Ivich]

- - JJohnson autobio that he sold to Nat was kept out of print until recently because of the porkies he related.

Easy to accuse a fighter for throwing a fight back then. Now accuse a fighter for PED usage easy enough.

Johnson sold no autobiography to Fleischer he sold him a signed confession of a fixed fight,the Willard one because he was broke Nat gave him $250 for it put it in his safe and never published it.END OF.