Did Jack Johnson participate in fixed fights?

[Willie Pep 229]

From all the posts I read on this thread I don't remember JJ saying he slipped.

I believe you will find above is a quote that JJ said he was "off balance."

That seems to me a strange half truth.

Did he mean he went down from a blow while he was off balance, or does it mean he slipped while throwing a punch. Either way it looks as though the referee didn't call it a KD.

I have over the past two years come to the conclusion, when dealing with Jack Johnson there is no absolute truth one can hang their hat on. Whether it comes from a pundit's remark or even from the man himself, nothing ever seems certain.

[Ivich]

From all the posts I read on this thread I don't remember JJ saying he slipped.

I believe you will find above is a quote that JJ said he was "off balance."

That seems to me a strange half truth.

Did he mean he went down from a blow while he was off balance, or does it mean he slipped while throwing a punch. Either way it looks as though the referee didn't call it a KD.

I have over the past two years come to the conclusion, when dealing with Jack Johnson there is no absolute truth one can hang their hat on. Whether it comes from a pundit's remark or even from the man himself, nothing ever seems certain.

Over the last two decades I have come to the conclusion that Johnson is a polarizing figure, some are prepared to cut him some slack because of the racist times he lived in.
Others hate his guts and readily believe anything and everything bad they can find on him and for them the truth is irrelevant.

These same people would not consider themselves as racist,but I have come to the reluctant conclusion that many of them see Johnson as an uppity ****** who needed to be taken down a peg or two because he did not know his place and refused to operate in the narrow confines that White society had ordained for him.
Therefore, in their eyes he only got what he deserved.
Johnson's, .lets call it his visit to the canvas,was, not called a KD by the referee, nor by any ringside reporters,not even by Langford's own manager.
That is good enough for me,it was not a knockdown, and all the hating agenda driven smoke and mirror trolling and ignoring of primary sourced facts will not alter that.
Whether Johnson was knocked down in fights is not really important in the long scheme of things ,he had over 70 recorded fights, and was boxing into his mid 50's, most boxers do get floored from time to time.
What is important to me is exposing these Johnson haters for what they are.
Johnson is not even one of my favourites,I much prefer watching more pro active heavyweight fighters ,such as Dempsey,Louis,Ali,Tyson,Holyfield,Marciano etc.

[QueensburyRules]

- - OK, for $13 including shipping I have Jack Johnson is a Dandy, republished in 1969 by **** Schaap and The Lampman who seems to be some Bohemian French based arteest.

The original first published in 1926 by Johnson. His last bout prior to publication was 1924 vs Homer Smith that was clearly fixed, or perhaps meant as a comedy skit. Hee mentions throwing, ie fixing the Willard bout long disproven when the footage like his Burns fight was revealed.

His steamboat NY stowaway tale via Key West where he battles a 23' shark to a draw clearly delusional fantasist nonsense.

Anyway, book is old, but never cracked, a pocket size book priced at $1.25, so maybe when I sell I'll get $50...yeah, right!!!

[Ivich]

- - OK, for $13 including shipping I have Jack Johnson is a Dandy, republished in 1969 by **** Schaap and The Lampman who seems to be some Bohemian French based arteest.

The original first published in 1926 by Johnson. His last bout prior to publication was 1924 vs Homer Smith that was clearly fixed, or perhaps meant as a comedy skit. Hee mentions throwing, ie fixing the Willard bout long disproven when the footage like his Burns fight was revealed.

His steamboat NY stowaway tale via Key West where he battles a 23' shark to a draw clearly delusional fantasist nonsense.

Anyway, book is old, but never cracked, a pocket size book priced at $1.25, so maybe when I sell I'll get $50...yeah, right!!!

Johnson told people what he thought would make a good story ,in one book he said he was involved in espionage spying for the US in neutral Spain during the 2nd World War.He also claimed to have met Ras***** in Russia, to have fought bulls with Belmonte in Spain.

How much gravitas anyone gives these tales depends on how credulous they are.

For example the story he told of jumping bail and crossing into Canada impersonating a husky base ball player from a black team was long ago disproved.

I bought any book on Johnson I could find when I was in my teens and early 20's,at least 3 of them are hyperbolic garbage.

Adam Pollack's 2 volumes ,"Jack Johnson In The Ring & Out",
Geoffrey C Ward's ,"Unforgiveable Blackness,"
Randy Robert's ,"Papa Jack."

Are the best three I have read,with Pollack's being the number 1 for its impartiality and exhaustive research.

[Dr. Z]

- - OK, for $13 including shipping I have Jack Johnson is a Dandy, republished in 1969 by **** Schaap and The Lampman who seems to be some Bohemian French based arteest.

The original first published in 1926 by Johnson. His last bout prior to publication was 1924 vs Homer Smith that was clearly fixed, or perhaps meant as a comedy skit. Hee mentions throwing, ie fixing the Willard bout long disproven when the footage like his Burns fight was revealed.

His steamboat NY stowaway tale via Key West where he battles a 23' shark to a draw clearly delusional fantasist nonsense.

Anyway, book is old, but never cracked, a pocket size book priced at $1.25, so maybe when I sell I'll get $50...yeah, right!!!

I never heard of that book, but if Johnson says the Homer Smith fight was fixed and based on the news report it wasn't on the level, you have to consider it was.

If we are honest he was in fixed fights just like Primo Carnera! In this case a pre-agreed agreement, not on the level. One way to fix a fight Good post Queensbury.

ref: Georges Rivet A "colossal burlesque, " was the general opinion of the 5, 000 assembled, with Smith taking the count of nine on several occasions "without apparently being hard hit." Johnson "did not take the fight seriously, other than from the box office end, and his much touted effort to stage a comeback fell by the wayside." Montreal Gazette

[QueensburyRules]

Johnson told people what he thought would make a good story ,in one book he said he was involved in espionage spying for the US in neutral Spain during the 2nd World War.He also claimed to have met Ras***** in Russia, to have fought bulls with Belmonte in Spain.

How much gravitas anyone gives these tales depends on how credulous they are.

For example the story he told of jumping bail and crossing into Canada impersonating a husky base ball player from a black team was long ago disproved.

I bought any book on Johnson I could find when I was in my teens and early 20's,at least 3 of them are hyperbolic garbage.

Adam Pollack's 2 volumes ,"Jack Johnson In The Ring & Out",
Geoffrey C Ward's ,"Unforgiveable Blackness,"
Randy Robert's ,"Papa Jack."

Are the best three I have read,with Pollack's being the number 1 for its impartiality and exhaustive research.

- - I'd have to see proof since he did briefly play first base for the black barnstorming Philly Giants in between their County fairground type exhibitions. HOF black pitcher and Negro League founder Rube Foster was from his area of Texas, so they were very tight.

No biggie in them pre ID days for any barnstorming team to cross over into Canada to play baseball, and JJ boxed regular exhibitions there where he may well have met Jack Dempsey in a private fight arranged by a men's club in fabulous Gold Rich Saskatchewan. John L was a minor leaguer who probably played in Canada as well given the close proximity to Boston.

[Ivich]

- - I'd have to see proof since he did briefly play first base for the black barnstorming Philly Giants in between their County fairground type exhibitions. HOF black pitcher and Negro League founder Rube Foster was from his area of Texas, so they were very tight.

No biggie in them pre ID days for any barnstorming team to cross over into Canada to play baseball, and JJ boxed regular exhibitions there where he may well have met Jack Dempsey in a private fight arranged by a men's club in fabulous Gold Rich Saskatchewan. John L was a minor leaguer who probably played in Canada as well given the close proximity to Boston.

Rube Foster's Giants was the team Johnson said he joined to escape the US. The consensus of opinion is that he just left and the authorities were glad to see the back of him.
At the time of the Homer Smith fight Johnson was drinking heavily and going through a divorce from Lucille Cameron. Johnson was a month off 46 years old when he met Smith.
Nobody has ever been able to turn up a shred of evidence that Dempsey and Johnson ever met in a ring .
I find the idea a party of rich business men could stump up enough money to entice World's Champion Dempsey into a ring with Johnson for a private set to incredibly fatuous.
Dempsey was making an absolute fortune starring in one reelers as Two Fisted Jack and other heroic persona.
If the plan had ever been broached with Dempsey,and there is not a particle of proof that it ever was,I think he would have turned it down for the same reason he refused to box Joe Jeannette , ie it would be a no win situtation if Johnson did reasonably well say over a 6 rounds distance,surviving by clinching and stalling the hit to Dempsey's rep would be tremendous,and if Dempsey had destroyed Johnson as summarily as he did Fulton ,what would that have proved? That he feasted on the carcass of a once great fighter.

[QueensburyRules]

Rube Foster's Giants was the team Johnson said he joined to escape the US. The consensus of opinion is that he just left and the authorities were glad to see the back of him.
At the time of the Homer Smith fight Johnson was drinking heavily and going through a divorce from Lucille Cameron. Johnson was a month off 46 years old when he met Smith.
Nobody has ever been able to turn up a shred of evidence that Dempsey and Johnson ever met in a ring .
I find the idea a party of rich business men could stump up enough money to entice World's Champion Dempsey into a ring with Johnson for a private set to incredibly fatuous.
Dempsey was making an absolute fortune starring in one reelers as Two Fisted Jack and other heroic persona.
If the plan had ever been broached with Dempsey,and there is not a particle of proof that it ever was,I think he would have turned it down for the same reason he refused to box Joe Jeannette , ie it would be a no win situtation if Johnson did reasonably well say over a 6 rounds distance,surviving by clinching and stalling the hit to Dempsey's rep would be tremendous,and if Dempsey had destroyed Johnson as summarily as he did Fulton ,what would that have proved? That he feasted on the carcass of a once great fighter.

- - Tu confuso.

Brooklyn Eagle, Dec 10, 1921.

Saskatchawan was the biggest gold strike in North America then, thus likely the world. Be like Saudi royalty who don't appear on most wealthy lists because their wealth is unfathomable for comparison ratings to button down corporate biz models.

This is pre Hollywood Dempsey.

Kearn cut out Rickard to take Dempsey to Montana for his infamous fight with Gibbons that bankrupted the town. Sask miners, each was worth well over 100x the piffle Dempsey got from Montana. Kearns and Jack both willing to fight Wills but for politics killing that fight repeatedly. A surreptitious private fight in the basement of a private Men's club with less than a dozen speculators throwing crazy $$$ a no brainer JJ and Dempsey would've jumped on.

JJ turned down a private basement bareknuckler for the $500 in US Gold Eagles Jeffries slapped on the bar that he owned when JJ was soliciting for a title fight.

[travestyny]

- - Tu confuso.

Brooklyn Eagle, Dec 10, 1921.

Saskatchawan was the biggest gold strike in North America then, thus likely the world. Be like Saudi royalty who don't appear on most wealthy lists because their wealth is unfathomable for comparison ratings to button down corporate biz models.

This is pre Hollywood Dempsey.

Kearn cut out Rickard to take Dempsey to Montana for his infamous fight with Gibbons that bankrupted the town. Sask miners, each was worth well over 100x the piffle Dempsey got from Montana. Kearns and Jack both willing to fight Wills but for politics killing that fight repeatedly. A surreptitious private fight in the basement of a private Men's club with less than a dozen speculators throwing crazy $$$ a no brainer JJ and Dempsey would've jumped on.

JJ turned down a private basement bareknuckler for the $500 in US Gold Eagles Jeffries slapped on the bar that he owned when JJ was soliciting for a title fight.

How did politics kill the Dempsey Wills fight when places like NY were begging for the Dempsey Wills fight and a poll confirmed the people wanted it.


No one was going to have any basement fights. Didn't happen and wasn't going to happen, nor should they have.

[QueensburyRules]

How did politics kill the Dempsey Wills fight when places like NY were begging for the Dempsey Wills fight and a poll confirmed the people wanted it.


No one was going to have any basement fights. Didn't happen and wasn't going to happen, nor should they have.

- - Already been 'splained to you after Boston killed Wills/Dempsey in RedSox Stadium that Frazee owned, he went to the Yanks to get a inbetween road trip date that NY killed. Frazee had near 1 mil purse of his $$$ guaranteed.

Fighters currently fighting in Arab territories, and have previously fought slogging through farm meadows, ships, barges, spit islands in the middle of lakes and rivers, salt mines, blah, blah, so a soft lad like you don't dictate where fights are to be...