Joe Louis and the 8 black men who got away,

[Dr. Z]

Joe Louis was a man who did a lot of good work for civil rights, and he went about it the right way. He was humble, and loved his county. Yet he only defended his title of 26 title defenses vs. two black men. Walcott who by ringside reporters should have won by 66% of the writers. He was robbed and the re-match proved 2 black men can most certainly draw. The other was John Henry Lewis. Joe Louis and John Henry were good friends. Lewis was almost blind in one eye and his eyesight was deteriorating. Louis gave his friend the title fight so he could have one big payday before the eye problem forced him to retire And retire he did directly after his pay day and fight with Louis which thankfully only lasted one round.

But where are the other black opponents that were qualified more so than " bum of the month " and over white opponents. Are we supposed to believe there was some sort of lull in the black talent? No, they weren't picked and by doing this Louis and his management split a weak era of heavyweights in half. Mind you it is not me who calls Joe Louis era weak, Ring Magazine rated the 1930's decade the worst for heavyweights. The 1940's was further fragmented as many men were fighting in World War II.

Here are some men who all would have made good title opponents. You can say they were unfairly ducked and passed over in favor of many not so good white opponents.

Larry Gaines. The 6'1" 79" Gianes beat fought some of Louis' opponents, most notably Primo Carnera who he beat. Active until 1942 he most certainly deserved a title shot. Ranked and highly thought of.

Obie Walker. Tough as shoe leather, Walker won 97 fights and had 64 Ko's. He was never Ko'd in 122 fights. Now that's some chin. He beat punchers like Elmer Ray and Tony Galento , and would make for a most interesting title fight. Active in the from 1931-1946

Wille Reddish, a solid contender forced to fight a who's who mostly black contenders he mixed it with Wallcot, Ray, Shepherd, Lee Q Murray, Abe Simon, Lem Franklin, had Curtis Sheppard winning his share.

Tiger Jack Fox, A big puncher with 93 Knockouts, he holds wins over Walcott and Rosenbloom. Active from before Louis started to the very end. Two punchers going at it would make for an interesting title fight.

Lem Franklin. Winner of 19 fights in a row, including wins over Bivins, Musto and Simon. Joe Louis didn't fight this contender. Highly ranked as high as #2

Lee Q Murray. Ranked as high as number 3 he fought many of the same men Louis did.

Turkey Thompson. A man who is described as flying across the ring, he was ranked and avoided. He beat Godoy and many of the black fighters Louis did not meet. Ranked.

Elmer Ray. Initially scouted by Louis management in a MSG fight they quickly changed their mind after seeing him. Highly ranked.

Now I'm not saying Louis should have fought all of them, but he should have fought some of them! Some of these men were ranked and many fought the same opposition. Louis fought Ezzard Charles ( past his prime ) and was badly beaten 13 -2 on one card. Another had it 12-4 Might Louis have lost if he fought all 8 or these men Yes, he would have and additional loss on his resume in my opinion. Maybe more than just one. And if he had fought then his legacy would be even grater. Some historian's don't consider Dempsey world champion for not fighting Wills and Godfrey. IMO Louis is guilty of the same ( expect he did fight two black men and IMO lost to one of them ) and the black competition was greater over all in the 30' and 40's compared to the late teens and early 1920's

There is a lot to chew on here. I might edit this post a bit later.

[DeeMoney]

I could be wrong, but I always assumed it was a result of how things were socially back then. One, that, as you noted, Louis was a clean cut American hero; and they wanted to ensure that any black heavyweight champ was that way. Two, they wanted to keep white America engaged so they kept him fighting white fighters.

I could be way off on this, I just had always assumed that was the narrative.

[QueensburyRules]

I could be wrong, but I always assumed it was a result of how things were socially back then. One, that, as you noted, Louis was a clean cut American hero; and they wanted to ensure that any black heavyweight champ was that way. Two, they wanted to keep white America engaged so they kept him fighting white fighters.

I could be way off on this, I just had always assumed that was the narrative.

- - This crops up like the typical jock itch of most sports reporters looking to be in the middle of any controversy that sells.

The timeline does not support this faerie Army of dominant black contenders.

Lewis forfeited his LH title to fight Joe by spending a year mostly KOing some of these supposed contenders, a legit challenge posed to Joe that he met.

What happened is WW2 with Joe drafted and much of the eligible black males drafted along with their white counterparts yielded title on hold. Thus the turkeys remaining rose in the vacuum left of Ring Ratings. The hue and cry is a bit like Dempsey ducking black fighters that were in short supply in the majority of western states he fought in, but he still managed to fight a few.

Walcott and then Ez were cream of the black crop and Joe fought them and Jimmy Bivins. Fact is most of Joe's opponents were Ring top 10 that required new rankings every time Joe knocked one of them out of the ratings. Joe didn't make the ratings nor did him make the racial problems of his day. He transcended all to become the greatest heavywt fighter icon in history as far as what he meant to both blacks and whites and everyone in between.

[Ivich]

- - This crops up like the typical jock itch of most sports reporters looking to be in the middle of any controversy that sells.

The timeline does not support this faerie Army of dominant black contenders.

Lewis forfeited his LH title to fight Joe by spending a year mostly KOing some of these supposed contenders, a legit challenge posed to Joe that he met.

What happened is WW2 with Joe drafted and much of the eligible black males drafted along with their white counterparts yielded title on hold. Thus the turkeys remaining rose in the vacuum left of Ring Ratings. The hue and cry is a bit like Dempsey ducking black fighters that were in short supply in the majority of western states he fought in, but he still managed to fight a few.

Walcott and then Ez were cream of the black crop and Joe fought them and Jimmy Bivins. Fact is most of Joe's opponents were Ring top 10 that required new rankings every time Joe knocked one of them out of the ratings. Joe didn't make the ratings nor did him make the racial problems of his day. He transcended all to become the greatest heavywt fighter icon in history as far as what he meant to both blacks and whites and everyone in between.

Louis fought more number 1 contenders than any other heavyweight champion.
Gains and Walker were not relevant during Louis' reign.
Several others were never even Ring ranked during Louis reign.
During his career, Louis fought 27 ranked men and 2 reigning champions.

This smear campaign being conducted here by Dr Z ended up backfiring on the originator on the Classic Forum.resulting in him being permanently banned for refusing to accept proven facts and just ignoring verified corrections to his posts.

Congratulations on a fine post Queensbury!

[them_apples]

Joe Louis was a man who did a lot of good work for civil rights, and he went about it the right way. He was humble, and loved his county. Yet he only defended his title of 26 title defenses vs. two black men. Walcott who by ringside reporters should have won by 66% of the writers. He was robbed and the re-match proved 2 black men can most certainly draw. The other was John Henry Lewis. Joe Louis and John Henry were good friends. Lewis was almost blind in one eye and his eyesight was deteriorating. Louis gave his friend the title fight so he could have one big payday before the eye problem forced him to retire And retire he did directly after his pay day and fight with Louis which thankfully only lasted one round.

But where are the other black opponents that were qualified more so than " bum of the month " and over white opponents. Are we supposed to believe there was some sort of lull in the black talent? No, they weren't picked and by doing this Louis and his management split a weak era of heavyweights in half. Mind you it is not me who calls Joe Louis era weak, Ring Magazine rated the 1930's decade the worst for heavyweights. The 1940's was further fragmented as many men were fighting in World War II.

Here are some men who all would have made good title opponents. You can say they were unfairly ducked and passed over in favor of many not so good white opponents.

Larry Gaines. The 6'1" 79" Gianes beat fought some of Louis' opponents, most notably Primo Carnera who he beat. Active until 1942 he most certainly deserved a title shot. Ranked and highly thought of.

Obie Walker. Tough as shoe leather, Walker won 97 fights and had 64 Ko's. He was never Ko'd in 122 fights. Now that's some chin. He beat punchers like Elmer Ray and Tony Galento , and would make for a most interesting title fight. Active in the from 1931-1946

Wille Reddish, a solid contender forced to fight a who's who mostly black contenders he mixed it with Wallcot, Ray, Shepherd, Lee Q Murray, Abe Simon, Lem Franklin, had Curtis Sheppard winning his share.

Tiger Jack Fox, A big puncher with 93 Knockouts, he holds wins over Walcott and Rosenbloom. Active from before Louis started to the very end. Two punchers going at it would make for an interesting title fight.

Lem Franklin. Winner of 19 fights in a row, including wins over Bivins, Musto and Simon. Joe Louis didn't fight this contender. Highly ranked as high as #2

Lee Q Murray. Ranked as high as number 3 he fought many of the same men Louis did.

Turkey Thompson. A man who is described as flying across the ring, he was ranked and avoided. He beat Godoy and many of the black fighters Louis did not meet. Ranked.

Elmer Ray. Initially scouted by Louis management in a MSG fight they quickly changed their mind after seeing him. Highly ranked.

Now I'm not saying Louis should have fought all of them, but he should have fought some of them! Some of these men were ranked and many fought the same opposition. Louis fought Ezzard Charles ( past his prime ) and was badly beaten 13 -2 on one card. Another had it 12-4 Might Louis have lost if he fought all 8 or these men Yes, he would have and additional loss on his resume in my opinion. Maybe more than just one. And if he had fought then his legacy would be even grater. Some historian's don't consider Dempsey world champion for not fighting Wills and Godfrey. IMO Louis is guilty of the same ( expect he did fight two black men and IMO lost to one of them ) and the black competition was greater over all in the 30' and 40's compared to the late teens and early 1920's

There is a lot to chew on here. I might edit this post a bit later.

blacks also didn't dominate boxing back then, and still don't always. In other sports yes. Boxing IS a skill sport, athleticism doesn't win championships (not even in Jones case, or Ali) you need skills.

Even today, it's probably an even mix of spanish, blacks and asians.

Go farther back and purebread romans and Irish were another problem.

Right now the lineup at the top are mostly black, but only a few years back the entire thing was spearheaded by Pacquiao at least alongside Mayweather.

so this post is dumb and you are likely racially biased.

Walcott Gave old Louis trouble but he dusted other black dudes cold, so what does that prove?

[Dr. Z]

blacks also didn't dominate boxing back then, and still don't always. In other sports yes. Boxing IS a skill sport, athleticism doesn't win championships (not even in Jones case, or Ali) you need skills.

Even today, it's probably an even mix of spanish, blacks and asians.

Go farther back and purebread romans and Irish were another problem.

Right now the lineup at the top are mostly black, but only a few years back the entire thing was spearheaded by Pacquiao at least alongside Mayweather.

so this post is dumb and you are likely racially biased.

Walcott Gave old Louis trouble but he dusted other black dudes cold, so what does that prove?

Um what black dudes did he bust cold? Certainly not Walcott or Charles. Louis did not fight many African Americans while he was an active champion of before. List the black dudes who he " busted " cold and KO'd without being way behind it you can. You're a lightweight poster on information and in general. How do you like them apples?

[Dr. Z]

Louis fought more number 1 contenders than any other heavyweight champion.
Gains and Walker were not relevant during Louis' reign.
Several others were never even Ring ranked during Louis reign.
During his career, Louis fought 27 ranked men and 2 reigning champions.

This smear campaign being conducted here by Dr Z ended up backfiring on the originator on the Classic Forum.resulting in him being permanently banned for refusing to accept proven facts and just ignoring verified corrections to his posts.

Congratulations on a fine post Queensbury!

What are you talking about? Several people liked the post you are referring to and stop talking about other forums. 27 title defenses and just two black men? I still post there by the way.

[QueensburyRules]

What are you talking about? Several people liked the post you are referring to and stop talking about other forums. 27 title defenses and just two black men? I still post there by the way.

- - 3 after giving JJoe a rematch of their first controversy, ie 3 more highly qualified black challengers than JJohnson defended against.

Thanks for the reminder...

[them_apples]

Um what black dudes did he bust cold? Certainly not Walcott or Charles. Louis did not fight many African Americans while he was an active champion of before. List the black dudes who he " busted " cold and KO'd without being way behind it you can. You're a lightweight poster on information and in general. How do you like them apples?

you laughed that hard like I grabbed your soul and pulled it out. that really bothered you didn't it. anyhow, I was referring to Walcott (and Charles, now that you mention it) knockout of "black dudes" which they did.

You didn't even read my post right that's how hard you were breathing

You got some racist undertones impeding your IQ. skin don't matter bud

to clarify so you understand my post:

Walcott and Charles both frequently beat other black men, so having fought Louis, when Louis was past his prime (and we can see even an old Louis does well against these top tier black fighters) I think we can say you don't have a point in the big world of data.

[Ivich]

you laughed that hard like I grabbed your soul and pulled it out. that really bothered you didn't it. anyhow, I was referring to Walcott (and Charles, now that you mention it) knockout of "black dudes" which they did.

You didn't even read my post right that's how hard you were breathing

You got some racist undertones impeding your IQ. skin don't matter bud

to clarify so you understand my post:

Walcott and Charles both frequently beat other black men, so having fought Louis, when Louis was past his prime (and we can see even an old Louis does well against these top tier black fighters) I think we can say you don't have a point in the big world of data.

He has been permanently banned for this thread and the BS he posted in it on another Forum.
His top 3 targets are Jack Johnson.Joe Louis and Joe Frazier.
His heroes are Jim Jeffries, Vitali, and Wlad Klitschko.