Where does Deontay Wilder stack up against the early 80's HW scene?

[max baer]

aj was a drug dealer given an opportunity to make some real money and he obeyed the rules and the most important thing is that he obeyed the rules and that is why we respect him aye Queeny!

only joking aj done amazingly to become hw champ after just a few years. i'd never knock another persons achievements. he done amazing things respect for that.

[them_apples]

The big difference between wilder and Joshua was demonstrated in the third fury fight ; a fighters mentality. For all his faults and flaws Wilder showed he is a warrior, prepared to go out on his shield not turning away and being counted out standing in a corner like Joshua.

this actually changes everything, in regards to who would you pick. It's true he'll try till the last round, which is very uncommon today. and he looked absolutely straight legged exhausted in his last fight.

[them_apples]

I agree that Vitali was better than little bro. Vitali, fought in the Russian Olympic style. Wald was more American style thanks to Steward. Vitali and Lewis could beat Wilder and AJ both. Lewis and Vitali could beat AJ now.

I don't see a lot of American boxing in Wlad, I know he worked with Steward, but he generally fought like a stiff mechanical fighter. Vitali did fight russian, but he used a lot of american professional techniques as well.

[them_apples]

Weaver was stopped 12 times in 18 losses. 2 of the losses were at the end of his career and against all time greats Lewis and (old )Holmes. Take those fights out of the equation and he still has 10 ko losses out of his 16 defeats. In Wilders 2 losses he's been stopped twice by Tyson Fury. These are both prime losses. But besides Larry Holmes, Tyson is bigger and better than anyone else who stopped Weaver before being past prime. In other words, Weaver has been starched by lesser fighters and never fought a puncher like Wilder. So while I agree the Mike fought better fighter overall, he also lost to far lesser fighters as well, and by knockout.

I think Wilder has a better chin, he just doesn't know how to ride punches and eats them flush. That shot he took to the temple is an example, thats why you don't see that too often in boxing, it's an easy shot to glance off the temple if the fighter is good enough and knows how to use angles. Wilder just hands up ate it. equilibrium wobbling is usually a sign of a flush shot.

but let's also consider he hasn't fought anyone. Fury is the only live fighter he really fought, I'm not sure how much that tough fight with the Cuban even proves. Wilder sort of made him popular.

I do agree that Wilders chin, physically is probably better.

[Willow The Wisp]

I think Wilder has a better chin, he just doesn't know how to ride punches and eats them flush. That shot he took to the temple is an example, thats why you don't see that too often in boxing, it's an easy shot to glance off the temple if the fighter is good enough and knows how to use angles. Wilder just hands up ate it. equilibrium wobbling is usually a sign of a flush shot.

but let's also consider he hasn't fought anyone. Fury is the only live fighter he really fought, I'm not sure how much that tough fight with the Cuban even proves. Wilder sort of made him popular.

I do agree that Wilders chin, physically is probably better.

Gotta stop you there, and honestly I'm trying to help.
When people say things like ".....but let's also consider he (Deontay Wilder) hasn't fought anyone", in reference to an Olympic medalist who has 46 pro fights, 13 world title fights, I have to, um, question the depth of knowledge of that statement maker for the topic of combat sports. Any person with any interest in the subject would.
But maybe it's just a matter of lost perspective?
So, let's see if you're teachable....

Know who the greatest MMA fighter in history is? H2H, as the kiddies say? Its obviously a heavyweight (that's why they have weight divisions).
It's also obviouly a recent MMA fighter (the sport has both grown and evolved in 30 years). The answer is one Francis Ngannou, the best ever. Better than the rest.

Now......
MMA is a sidebar combat sport that has done very well, winning legitimacy and incorporating into a single major company to package and sell its brand. Arguably, Ngannou is their Muhammad Ali.
But What does it MEAN to be Francis Ngannou, really?
You'd think it would be something terrific, right? The most techniques inclusive combat sport, MMA. Rolls in all the boxing, Kickboxing, grappling styles, and "the martial arts". And that must be a great and important world to rule with an iron hand, as Francis Ngannou certainly does.
But alas; that crown simply isn't worth an aweful lot. That's the surprising truth of it.

Maybe its the UFC'S pay structure. Much more than that though its something bigger. The adding "allowed technique" having a deminishing return, like adding chromium to steel. This makes the steel harder, until a point is reached when the steel suddenly becomes brittle.
Afterall, add a rule to allow biting and eye gougging and bam, most of that ground grappling is negated as a best safe approach. Adding what's allowed doesn't make a better combat sport. Keep adding "realism" and you end up watching one guy slug another guy over the head with a length of pipe. Its stricly good unified marketing and slave wages that keeps Ngannou's last sport going.
They knew this very same thing in Mesopotamia. They knew this in Assyria too. And Egypt, and Greece, and Rome. That a clean, stand up, astceticly pleasing fight sport whose rules accentuate the athleticism of it's participants is somehow greater than an open rules one.

So here is this Francis Ngannou, the MMA goat with a boxing base, the king of nothing.
And so, he walks away from his UFC contract.
And becomes a heavyweight boxer with a professional record of 0-0-0 (0).
That, is his step-up move, a notch beyond simply being the Best in the history of MMA.
He has stepped up. His choice. His career acent. Its been all over the news.

And what does he aspire to next?
Well, that's obvious. Hes been saying it over and over again.
He aspires to be Deontay Wilder.

Are you able to keep up with all this?

And here you are saying "Deontay Wilder hasn't fought anyone ".
Insinuating that he landed where he is through some accident?

Apparently, you've missed something.

All the wrestling and submission grappling and martial arts and kicking and Bareknucke fighting in the world gets you ONLY to the point where you WISH YOU COULD BE Deontay Wilder.

Don't be cross.
This is a genuine opportunity.
In aquessence, you can be a sharper fellow than you would otherwise be.

[them_apples]

Gotta stop you there, and honestly I'm trying to help.
When people say things like ".....but let's also consider he (Deontay Wilder) hasn't fought anyone", in reference to an Olympic medalist who has 46 pro fights, 13 world title fights, I have to, um, question the depth of knowledge of that statement maker for the topic of combat sports. Any person with any interest in the subject would.
But maybe it's just a matter of lost perspective?
So, let's see if you're teachable....

Know who the greatest MMA fighter in history is? H2H, as the kiddies say? Its obviously a heavyweight (that's why they have weight divisions).
It's also obviouly a recent MMA fighter (the sport has both grown and evolved in 30 years). The answer is one Francis Ngannou, the best ever. Better than the rest.

Now......
MMA is a sidebar combat sport that has done very well, winning legitimacy and incorporating into a single major company to package and sell its brand. Arguably, Ngannou is their Muhammad Ali.
But What does it MEAN to be Francis Ngannou, really?
You'd think it would be something terrific, right? The most techniques inclusive combat sport, MMA. Rolls in all the boxing, Kickboxing, grappling styles, and "the martial arts". And that must be a great and important world to rule with an iron hand, as Francis Ngannou certainly does.
But alas; that crown simply isn't worth an aweful lot. That's the surprising truth of it.

Maybe its the UFC'S pay structure. Much more than that though its something bigger. The adding "allowed technique" having a deminishing return, like adding chromium to steel. This makes the steel harder, until a point is reached when the steel suddenly becomes brittle.
Afterall, add a rule to allow biting and eye gougging and bam, most of that ground grappling is negated as a best safe approach. Adding what's allowed doesn't make a better combat sport. Keep adding "realism" and you end up watching one guy slug another guy over the head with a length of pipe. Its stricly good unified marketing and slave wages that keeps Ngannou's last sport going.
They knew this very same thing in Mesopotamia. They knew this in Assyria too. And Egypt, and Greece, and Rome. That a clean, stand up, astceticly pleasing fight sport whose rules accentuate the athleticism of it's participants is somehow greater than an open rules one.

So here is this Francis Ngannou, the MMA goat with a boxing base, the king of nothing.
And so, he walks away from his UFC contract.
And becomes a heavyweight boxer with a professional record of 0-0-0 (0).
That, is his step-up move, a notch beyond simply being the Best in the history of MMA.
He has stepped up. His choice. His career acent. Its been all over the news.

And what does he aspire to next?
Well, that's obvious. Hes been saying it over and over again.
He aspires to be Deontay Wilder.

Are you able to keep up with all this?

And here you are saying "Deontay Wilder hasn't fought anyone ".
Insinuating that he landed where he is through some accident?

Apparently, you've missed something.

All the wrestling and submission grappling and martial arts and kicking and Bareknucke fighting in the world gets you ONLY to the point where you WISH YOU COULD BE Deontay Wilder.

Don't be cross.
This is a genuine opportunity.
In aquessence, you can be a sharper fellow than you would otherwise be.
​

when I say he hasn't fought anyone, for me I generally mean I still don't know how to rank him. He really only has the Fury fight to go by, and I think that fight was great stylistically, because Fury has above average boxing skills but not great, and Wilder has below average boxing skills but good power. Fury I believe has a weak chin and lots of heart. I say this because I saw cunningham drop him pretty big - and cunningham was never a puncher even at cruiser, and Fury - although he is tall, is rather slender framed and carries a lot of chub. I don't think he's built like someone who could take a shot. He's mentally tough though and has the right mentality.

Now let the dust settle on that fight, and just look at the rest of his body of work. It's a whole crop of actual cab drivers and bouncers, obese middleweights and the like. Then he squeaked by the fight with Ortiz, but was losing handily before the knockout, and then remember Ortiz pretty much hit main****** WHEN he fought Wilder, I didn't even know who he was.

So going forward, in regards to Wilder - if I see the Ruiz vs Wilder fight? I don't know who to pick. It's very hard to gauge how good Wilder is.

[Bundana]

this actually changes everything, in regards to who would you pick. It's true he'll try till the last round, which is very uncommon today. and he looked absolutely straight legged exhausted in his last fight.

More uncommon now than "back in the day"?