How Did Tyson Fury succeed where Muhammad Ali failed?

[max baer]

- - Don't give the Gypsy Souffle any ideas.

ha ha nice one i had to look up souffle i never heard it till now!
https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/n...s-show-3917259

check this stallone reckons fury is the goat too.

[Willow The Wisp]

you wrote this very well. Fury differed from Ali in one respect, Ali believed all his hype but Fury was consumed by doubt and dangerously low self esteem. he comes from poor beginnings and there is a tragedy among travellers of suicide.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61117469
read this about it. I once right at the very start was not kind about fury as i was bias against travellers. After learning about Fury I found a really kind gentle man who really felt terrible about himself and yet i thought he was so talented. I wrote to him telling him this and asking for forgiveness for being what really was racist against travellers because i was judging all travellers as the same and not all as diverse as everyone other race or group. Many travllers lack self esteem as they are looked upon as worthless by wider society and yet Fury is a really kind man who gets easily hurt like I do and even though he is a boxing genius he really felt little value of himself like many travllers feel about themselves. Traditional travellers should not be confused with what english people term "pikies" as there is a clear difference and people mix them together. Gypsies have an ancient tradition that they are immensly proud of.
But what makes fury the goat I feel is that from as far back as he could walk he's been practicing boxing and he never gave up learning how to box in all styles and how to beat each style so noone could find a way to beat him. I came from a poor background too and felt a kindred spirit and wanted to help as there is noone else who i would rather see as champion.
I say all this because i know fury can always go deeper and deeper into his resilience and inner will then the other guy. He can twist and change the styles and pace and switch from orthodox to southpaw and hold and put his weight on the guy to wear him out and get the better of any man in 12 rounds but when he gains the esteem and pride in himself he really is the greatest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5qTvdFFW8c
I know him and have done since he was a kid and he respects my ideas and advice and I would never write a single sentence badly about him because I find him like two peas from a pod. He always reads my writing and I always keep up to date with his career. He really is a quiet gentleman and that is why his wife stays with him no matter what because he is a genuine nice guy. The times i've met him he never looks at people like "yeah you want some do ya" or anything like that he treats people with dignity and never throws his weight around. He always is kind to you and you know he could kill you in a few seconds but he never rubs your face in it he shows you dignity. All the bravado is just the entertainer side of him during fight build ups.
Ali was great and lennox lewis too but I think Fury would figure out a way to win. He knows when to maul them to make them feel weak and then tease them and then land on them and these things in different stages to confuse them. He is also a master of the body shots and Ali if you watch him only threw headshots he never ever seemed to throw body shots. This is why he is the best. One last thing, when a boxer knocks out another the trend in people is to say Yeah but they were always crap. yet right up to the knockout they were great. the guys now are just a great as they were in the sixties or eighties or any era.
Your thread starter is really good, thanks

This is a deep, sincere and excellent post my friend, and thank you for your insight.
Tyson Fury is a Brilliant fighter just as you point out; and by all accounts an intelligent and thoughtful man of character who understands media, entertainment and the importance of never forgetting his roots. A great addition to the long and prestigious line of world heavyweight champions!
I hope that you'll keep posting on the history section.
In the United States, very, very few know anything at all about recent BBC "Sportsman of the year" Tom Daley, Adam Peaty, Lewis Hamilton, Ben Stokes, Jordan Henderson, Andy Murray, Ryan Giggs, Mo Farah, or about the sports they represent. Absolute no-names in the nation owning 31% of all the wealth on earth and 69% of total global firepower; while Tyson Fury is known to most.
Take it from one "ugly American", That's some accomplishment!

[max baer]

This is a deep, sincere and excellent post my friend, and thank you for your insight.
Tyson Fury is a Brilliant fighter just as you point out; and by all accounts an intelligent and thoughtful man of character who understands media, entertainment and the importance of never forgetting his roots. A great addition to the long and prestigious line of world heavyweight champions!
I hope that you'll keep posting on the history section.
In the United States, very, very few know anything at all about recent BBC "Sportsman of the year" Tom Daley, Adam Peaty, Lewis Hamilton, Ben Stokes, Jordan Henderson, Andy Murray, Ryan Giggs, Mo Farah, or about the sports they represent. Absolute no-names in the nation owning 31% of all the wealth on earth and 69% of total global firepower; while Tyson Fury is known to most.
Take it from one "ugly American", That's some accomplishment!

Thank you very much i appreciate it very much.
dont forget that americans give by far the most to charity in the world. People knock america but I have a huge respect and admiration for the country who has given so much to the world. People and countries criticise america but they always run to them when in dire need. Fury combines being a huge star in las vegas to a quiet father and husband in his quiet town up north. He really is a great character.

[Mikeh333]

You know the background.....

Between 03-23-67 and 10-26-70, "The Greatest", Muhammad Ali was forced to temporarily retire from boxing and stood on the shelf for 3 years, 7 months and 3 days, or 1,313 days.
When he left he was the undisputed Heavyweight champion of the world and undefeated in 29 professional fights.

Fast forward to modern times, and while the particulars change, we have something similar occur.

Between 11-29-15 and 06-09-18, The Gypsy King", Tyson Fury was forced to temporarily retire from boxing and stood on the shelf for 2 years, 6 months, 11 days, or 923 days.
When he left he was the universally recognized and linial Heavyweight champion of the world and undefeated in 25 professional fights.

When at long last Ali was allowed to again ply his chosen trade, he returned to action and took on two of the best top 10 ranked contenders in the world in Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena. One sided wins over two of the best fighters he'd ever fought instantly re established Ali as the 1st or 2nd best heavyweight on the planet during a great period in heavyweight history; and he was prepared to face the new dominant force on the scene, Joe Frazier, 26-0-0.
Ali was 29 years of age.


After seeking medical help for several serious emotional health ailments and miraculously getting himself back in condition, at long last Fury was declaired fit to fight again, he returned to action and took on two mediocre talents good enough only to assist Fury regain his timing, if not his fighting prowess. One sided wins in those tune-ups was enough, however, to re establish Fury as the 1st or 2nd or 3rd best heavyweight on the planet during yet another great period in heavyweight history; and he somehow was left feeling prepared to face the new dominant force on the scene, Deontay Wilder, 40-0-0.
Fury was 30.



Now Wilder and Frazier both receive criticism here and so too, do Ali and Fury for that matter; but anyone who knows enough about the fight game to have earned a discussion on the subject will readily admit that fighters too much better than those four are found only in the comic books and in Hong Kong choreography.

Enough said that both Ali and Fury were really going for it. Strait to the title - Most dangerious opponents that the mother earth could provide to them.

If there was a difference between their respective challenges, it was surly that Ali took out two top guns for his preparation. Fury went in just about cold.

And yet........

Ali got Dumped and lost a classic.
Fury got dumped twice, but he salvaged a draw by winning more rounds in another classic.
Both, of course would go on to beat their dance partners twice apiece later on, but it would never be easy. Seldom is easy when greats go head to head.

Both Frazier and Wilder would prove still dominant among their peers for a while longer.
Both Ali and Fury would go on to dominance in their respective eras as champions, but for their BIG title reclamation comback nights, how was Fury able to do better than "The Greatest", if only slightly? And with so much less real good opponent/real fight preparation?

It's to ponder when determining what greatness is.

Fury is nowhere near the fighter Ali was, not yet anyway. And I say this as someone who disagrees profoundly with his political and religious views. Ali fought every great fighter of his era and neglected no one. Fury has yet to fight three of the best heavyweights of his era: Joshua, Usyk, and Ruiz. And I don’t know that he ever will. People are so hungry for boxing that they’ll pay a lot of money to see so-so fights. Fury is not being forced to fight the best.

Say what you will about Garcia and Davis, but they’re fighting each other, as young men, and aren’t waiting for five years to negotiate.

[max baer]

Ali fought better opposition. Frazier is > Wilder all day, every day. Wilder was exposed as a one-trick pony, a big right hand and not much else. Frazier was a more nuanced fighter.

can i just disagree with you here kindly. We can all agree that styles make fights. Ali beat foremen, formen beat frazier, frazier beat ali. Its like rock paper scissors. Fury as a kid learned all the styles and stances and worked all day every day to become competent in all stances. The easiest fighter for fury is a smallish guy like ruiz. His style is similar to frazier like peekaboo style and Fury would easily jab him to bits it would be easy i am sure. But ruiz may well trouble wilder as he can avoid the huge blows. Ruiz could really have a great fight with usek if that ever took place. Both men a slippery bob and weave types. Styles make fights but that is my point about Fury he perfected all the different styles so whatever style he encounters he knows what to do. It is just like chess. Fury and his boxing intellect is simply too good for these guys. But these other boxers could all battle each other for second place.

[Willie Pep 229]

can i just disagree with you here kindly. We can all agree that styles make fights. Ali beat foremen, formen beat frazier, frazier beat ali. Its like rock paper scissors. Fury as a kid learned all the styles and stances and worked all day every day to become competent in all stances. The easiest fighter for fury is a smallish guy like ruiz. His style is similar to frazier like peekaboo style and Fury would easily jab him to bits it would be easy i am sure. But ruiz may well trouble wilder as he can avoid the huge blows. Ruiz could really have a great fight with usek if that ever took place. Both men a slippery bob and weave types. Styles make fights but that is my point about Fury he perfected all the different styles so whatever style he encounters he knows what to do. It is just like chess. Fury and his boxing intellect is simply too good for these guys. But these other boxers could all battle each other for second place.

My god what an achievement. Tunney, SRR, Ali, Duran, SRL, Louis, Leonard, Etc. These bums could only master one style. But imagine a fighter who could master them all. Just try to imagine that.

Any chance you can get him to do some sit ups?

[max baer]

My god what an achievement. Tunney, SRR, Ali, Duran, SRL, Louis, Leonard, Etc. These bums could only master one style. But imagine a fighter who could master them all. Just try to imagine that.

Any chance you can get him to do some sit ups?

yes wise guy but the trick is to know what and when. a 3rd division footballer can do all the kick ups, tricks and skills but during the match he cannot get the motions right like a premier league champion.
and who out of these has never lost? never lost but two time champion.

[QueensburyRules]

Thank you very much i appreciate it very much.
dont forget that americans give by far the most to charity in the world. People knock america but I have a huge respect and admiration for the country who has given so much to the world. People and countries criticise america but they always run to them when in dire need. Fury combines being a huge star in las vegas to a quiet father and husband in his quiet town up north. He really is a great character.

- - Blubber came to America because he couldn't stand in the Shadow of AJ who was selling out Wembley while Blubber was squatting over a cooking fire with his gypsy fans in a circle of trailers.

[max baer]

- - Blubber came to America because he couldn't stand in the Shadow of AJ who was selling out Wembley while Blubber was squatting over a cooking fire with his gypsy fans in a circle of trailers.

How old are you?

[Ghost Jab]

There are a few reasons why Muhammad Ali is considered one of the best heavyweights of all time. He was a three-time heavyweight champion, had an impressive record of 56-5, and was known for his quick reflexes and agility for a heavyweight. He was also known for his trash talking and for his ability to psych out his opponents. However, there are a few reasons why Tyson Fury might be considered even better. Fury is the current heavyweight champion and has an undefeated record of 32-0-1. He's also 6'9', which is much taller than Ali, and he has a reach advantage over most of his opponents. Fury is also known for his strong mental game and for his ability to come back from difficult situations in fights. Fury has also twice defeated the boxer many people believe has the best punch of all time.