Now that Fenech's loss to Nelson has been overturned.....

[JAB5239]

Someone explain to me how Don King fixed these decisions.

I would like to hear a realistic scenario laid out - not the usual guilt by reputation.

I was being facetious. I wouldn't doubt King has been involved in fixed fights, but I have no proof of it. The Turd gobbler blames King for everything when it suits his agenda though.

[Willie Pep 229]

I was being facetious. I wouldn't doubt King has been involved in fixed fights, but I have no proof of it. The Turd gobbler blames King for everything when it suits his agenda though.

OK I am with you . . . Think of my question not as a challenge but a request for an education.

How does he pull it off?

No doubt he always tried to use his leverage (whatever that may have been) to try and fix things after the fight, e.g Tyson-Douglas. But did he have any real influence with judges and referees?

IBC in the 1950s did have limited sway over decisions, but avoided fixing fights outright. They kept the fighters out of it but held some sway over decisions.

Example: (They say) Frankie Carbo put the word in out 1951 he wanted Kid Gavilan. I.e. If the Johnny Bratton-Kid Gavlin fight went the distance the score cards should show Gavlin the winner and they did (for whichever reason.)

But if Bratton had stopped Gavlin he would have kept his title.

So goes that story.

Four years later Gavlin has played our his welcome with the TV audiences (you can only get excited over a finite number of bolo punches, I guess) and the word was sent that if Saxton was still on his feet at the end, the title was his, this time Gavlin was out.

Again Gavlin could have kept his title if he stopped Saxton. The IBC only wanted to be so crooked. They were in it for the long game.

Gavlin lost the decision and the title. Gavlin felt jobbed (and it may or may not have been so) but he broke down in the locker room in front of the press, saying he was robbed and would never fight again.

Of course the irony being he never knew that he had gained the title under the same corruption used to rob it from him.

Question is, did 1980s broadcasters/promoters/scantioning bodies hold that kind of sway over judges? Did Don King?

[JAB5239]

OK I am with you . . . Think of my question not as a challenge but a request for an education.

How does he pull it off?

No doubt he always tried to use his leverage (whatever that may have been) to try and fix things after the fight, e.g Tyson-Douglas. But did he have any real influence with judges and referees?

IBC in the 1950s did have limited sway over decisions, but avoided fixing fights outright. They kept the fighters out of it but held some sway over decisions.

Example: (They say) Frankie Carbo put the word in out 1951 he wanted Kid Gavilan. I.e. If the Johnny Bratton-Kid Gavlin fight went the distance the score cards should show Gavlin the winner and they did (for whichever reason.)

But if Bratton had stopped Gavlin he would have kept his title.

So goes that story.

Four years later Gavlin has played our his welcome with the TV audiences (you can only get excited over a finite number of bolo punches, I guess) and the word was sent that if Saxton was still on his feet at the end, the title was his, this time Gavlin was out.

Again Gavlin could have kept his title if he stopped Saxton. The IBC only wanted to be so crooked. They were in it for the long game.

Gavlin lost the decision and the title. Gavlin felt jobbed (and it may or may not have been so) but he broke down in the locker room in front of the press, saying he was robbed and would never fight again.

Of course the irony being he never knew that he had gained the title under the same corruption used to rob it from him.

Question is, did 1980s broadcasters/promoters/scantioning bodies hold that kind of sway over judges? Did Don King?

I think, and this is just me spitballing, that King held sway over the ABC orgs, particularly the WBC. They in turn held sway over the judges and referees they appointed to work they're sanctioned fights. I'm guessing King could pay off who ever he needed to to get a favorable referee and judges. I'm sure you remember Eugenia Williams just to name one such judge who's scoring was highly questionable during her career. There are others I'm sure, but she was the first to spring to mind.

Also, let's not forget United States boxing championships fiasco King orchestrated.

https://www.sportscasting.com/don-ki...dal-unscathed/

[markusmod]

OK I am with you . . . Think of my question not as a challenge but a request for an education.

How does he pull it off?

No doubt he always tried to use his leverage (whatever that may have been) to try and fix things after the fight, e.g Tyson-Douglas. But did he have any real influence with judges and referees?

IBC in the 1950s did have limited sway over decisions, but avoided fixing fights outright. They kept the fighters out of it but held some sway over decisions.

Example: (They say) Frankie Carbo put the word in out 1951 he wanted Kid Gavilan. I.e. If the Johnny Bratton-Kid Gavlin fight went the distance the score cards should show Gavlin the winner and they did (for whichever reason.)

But if Bratton had stopped Gavlin he would have kept his title.

So goes that story.

Four years later Gavlin has played our his welcome with the TV audiences (you can only get excited over a finite number of bolo punches, I guess) and the word was sent that if Saxton was still on his feet at the end, the title was his, this time Gavlin was out.

Again Gavlin could have kept his title if he stopped Saxton. The IBC only wanted to be so crooked. They were in it for the long game.

Gavlin lost the decision and the title. Gavlin felt jobbed (and it may or may not have been so) but he broke down in the locker room in front of the press, saying he was robbed and would never fight again.

Of course the irony being he never knew that he had gained the title under the same corruption used to rob it from him.

Question is, did 1980s broadcasters/promoters/scantioning bodies hold that kind of sway over judges? Did Don King?

Usually the lead promoter has to pay for the officials, that adds some influence.

[QueensburyRules]

Kind of like the way King orchestrated the draw for Chavez after Whitaker whipped him.

- - Feeling extra monkey again, eh?

[TeamElite]

Only it hasn't been "overturned". The WBC simply awarded Fenech a belt.

[Willie Pep 229]

Only it hasn't been "overturned". The WBC simply awarded Fenech a belt.

WBC are a dime a dozen. Sounds more like a 'lifetime achievement' award than a title.

[ShoulderRoll]

Kind of like the way King orchestrated the draw for Chavez after Whitaker whipped him.

[QueensburyRules]

- - I realize half the boys on this forum lack the nuance to understand boxing, but until the official record keeper of boxing changes the result, the Draw still remains, ie, THE DRAW STILL REMAINS!!!

Link includes what I take to be youtube link of the full first fight where Fenech whoops Nelson stem to stern, pillar to post.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Az...h_(1st_meeting)

[Willie Pep 229]

- - I realize half the boys on this forum lack the nuance to understand boxing, but until the official record keeper of boxing changes the result, the Draw still remains, ie, THE DRAW STILL REMAINS!!!

Link includes what I take to be youtube link of the full first fight where Fenech whoops Nelson stem to stern, pillar to post.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Az...h_(1st_meeting)

What pray tell is the 'official record keeper'?

I know the Library of Congress has got a dude like that, but boxing? Isn't this a business where multiple, maybe close to a score, believe they are the 'official' scationing body.

The whole idea of changing the results is silly.

I think the guy above nailed it. They just gave Fenech a belt. Made a whole bunch Ausies (sp) happy.

Didn't the WBC have two different LW Champions running around at the same time with WBC LW Championship belts claiming to be the rightful title holder, Lopez and Haney?

And it was not even like it was a scantioning body war between the WBA and the WBC. They were both wearing WBC belts.

Whole things a joke and whatever they did with Fenech looks like politics and has nothing to do with seeking justice.

I think it is all was PR.