Langford vs Greb

[The Old LefHook]

From the link I shared Loughran said it. I don't remember seeing Tunney make that statement, but I'm not saying it's impossible either. I'm covering my bases here!!

Are you saying Loughran said Wiggins was dirty, or said he was the most game fighter he ever met?

[JAB5239]

Are you saying Loughran said Wiggins was dirty, or said he was the most game fighter he ever met?

You're killing me smalls!!

[Rosco3387]

"If Greb was dirty, how come he doesn't have a lot of DQ's on his record?

I think very active fighters get a pass if they land a foul blow every now and then can partly be blamed on their style, and their opponents tendencies."

. -Mendoza, February 20, 2010

Hmmmmm, I wonder who that Mendoza guy is? He really seems to know what he talking about and is in full agreement with me.

yeah that Mendoza guy a real P ri ck! Reallyhad it out for JJ also! Kind a reminds me of someone who loves Vitalie, just cannot put a name to the face...

[Dr. Z]

You say dirty, I say rough. If there are quotes from fighters like Tunney saying he wasn't intentionally dirty, than why aren't there any from fighters saying he was dirty? As rough as he was I'd honestly expect something to pop up, but I haven't found it yet.

You also have to remember, there was no television back then. Using colorful descriptions sold newspapers.

I've said this repeatedly, Greb certainly fouled, I'm not denying that. Given the description of his style its not surprising to be honest. Does that mean he did it deliberately? I haven seen much evidence of that to call him an intentionally dirty fighter. As for me, id rather see him mug his opponents all day than d**** himself over them clinching. Can we at least agree on that?

Greb definitely had a reputation for being a dirty fighter and committed numerous fouls and had several referee warnings. Why? How come 99% of other fighters don't have this is the press? He was a dirty. How dirty depends on you point if view. In his case he was fast and skilled but he also lacked power and because of that, I think he had various fouls to thwart the other man as he built part of his game around it. Today that would be allowed.

Why aren't the fighters themselves saying he was dirty? Well, the newspaper men don't give them any press and hardly if ever quote his opponent after the fight. Shown me reports of 100+ year old reports when they do! Other fighter's opponents are seldom quoted. You really have to dig for it especially in the days before the internet. If there was TV and lots video of Greb in action he be viewed as fouler. More so than he is today which if you check several historians and the hall of fame which you seem to diminish say Greb was dirty. I recommend Chuck Hasson a Philly based historian who has lots of clips and is very good / highly respected in the research circles. He has more information than I.

So rather than harp on the point, which has caused you do create a stance looking the unprovable in you eyes in mine it is provable with better research on my end I think we should end this conversation here before I roll of my selves and look hard for it. You're only going to act adversely to me. That is not the way to convince a strong will person. I learned that.

Besides I'd much rather talk about the NFC East and the Cowboys who have a chance for a significant session by winning a playoffs game. We can all view that and talk about it.


Dr. Z

[Dr. Z]

What kind of name is Greb? Was he of Eastern European decent? Guess I'll see if Wikipedia says his heritage? That face is hard to place. The nose may not actually be his but instead a tribute to (result of) the style of fighting we have been speaking of.

Those cheek bones and eyes say maybe a little American Indian in the woodpile. Kind of like Dempsey's look.

Tunney said Greb was ***ish to the press. This is possible at least on one side if his family. The name Harry is a name typcialy given to ***ish people and the ***ish Sports hall if fame used to have Greb in it. Some say it used to the Berg as was reversed. The ***s are a small segment of the population that had some pretty good fighters in Greb's time. Could be an Eastern European ***ish decent.

Who really knows. I'll leave that to a genealogist if the every research it. I doubt he is native American, his family tree wasn't here long enough for that.

[JAB5239]

Greb definitely had a reputation for being a dirty fighter and committed numerous fouls and had several referee warnings. Why? How come 99% of other fighters don't have this is the press? He was a dirty. How dirty depends on you point if view. In his case he was fast and skilled but he also lacked power and because of that, I think he had various fouls to thwart the other man as he built part of his game around it. Today that would be allowed.

Why aren't the fighters themselves saying he was dirty? Well, the newspaper men don't give them any press and hardly if ever quote his opponent after the fight. Shown me reports of 100+ year old reports when they do! Other fighter's opponents are seldom quoted. You really have to dig for it especially in the days before the internet. If there was TV and lots video of Greb in action he be viewed as fouler. More so than he is today which if you check several historians and the hall of fame which you seem to diminish say Greb was dirty. I recommend Chuck Hasson a Philly based historian who has lots of clips and is very good / highly respected in the research circles. He has more information than I.

So rather than harp on the point, which has caused you do create a stance looking the unprovable in you eyes in mine it is provable with better research on my end I think we should end this conversation here before I roll of my selves and look hard for it. You're only going to act adversely to me. That is not the way to convince a strong will person. I learned that.

Besides I'd much rather talk about the NFC East and the Cowboys who have a chance for a significant session by winning a playoffs game. We can all view that and talk about it.


Dr. Z

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm sure you won't be changing yours anytime soon and I know I won't be changing mine anytime soon. I'm not trying to act adversely. I like a lot of your posts, even if I don't always agree. You haven't made up lies to win a debate as another poster on this forum so often does and gets caught. You've done research and stated your side of things. But just because our opinions differ doesn't mean we can't learn from one another.

I have other opinions such as Dempsey ducked Greb and Wills, or Vits career is overrated that some don't agree with me on. As in depth as I've gone to make my casemin those and other instances, ive usually taken away some other knowledge i can use down the road. So if things get heated, dont take it personally. In my 15 years on this forum there have only been a hangful of posters I've truly disliked.

The cowboys have the defense to make a playoff run if the shore up their run D. The offense will keep developing with Dak. Unfortunately Philly is looking like a juggernaut right now and I do t think anyone can stop Buffal this year.

[JAB5239]

Tunney said Greb was ***ish to the press. This is possible at least on one side if his family. The name Harry is a name typcialy given to ***ish people and the ***ish Sports hall if fame used to have Greb in it. Some say it used to the Berg as was reversed. The ***s are a small segment of the population that had some pretty good fighters in Greb's time. Could be an Eastern European ***ish decent.

Who really knows. I'll leave that to a genealogist if the every research it. I doubt he is native American, his family tree wasn't here long enough for that.

Greb was often said to have changed the spelling of his name backwards from Berg. This is where the idea of him being ***ish came from I'm sure. It is untrue though. He was indeed born with the last name Greb.

https://www.harrygreb.com/birthcertificate.html

[Dr. Z]

You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm sure you won't be changing yours anytime soon and I know I won't be changing mine anytime soon. I'm not trying to act adversely. I like a lot of your posts, even if I don't always agree. You haven't made up lies to win a debate as another poster on this forum so often does and gets caught. You've done research and stated your side of things. But just because our opinions differ doesn't mean we can't learn from one another.

I have other opinions such as Dempsey ducked Greb and Wills, or Vits career is overrated that some don't agree with me on. As in depth as I've gone to make my casemin those and other instances, ive usually taken away some other knowledge i can use down the road. So if things get heated, dont take it personally. In my 15 years on this forum there have only been a hangful of posters I've truly disliked.

The cowboys have the defense to make a playoff run if the shore up their run D. The offense will keep developing with Dak. Unfortunately Philly is looking like a juggernaut right now and I do t think anyone can stop Buffal this year.

I've got it. Do you want a season / highly respected historian's opinion? One who isn't a Greb homer and calls it like it is? A man with 100's of news press clippings ( non internet ) who knows more about boxing than me? I can PM you his email. He's a Philly guy ( his town and regional based historian of Philly fighters ). Just don't mention your a Dallas fan right off the bat and you should be fine. Ask him what he thinks about Greb. I'm curious too! He doesn't post here I think.

You may have me wrong. I agree with you that Dempsey ducked Wills and Greb! For sure he did. Vitali's career against history judging by the standards of ranked ring magazine fighter beaten is excellent. And when you go into his accomplished as mentioned during the article he towers over them. I'll say that. And his two defeats happened when he was up on the cards, not because he was down or anything like that. Vitali was seeking a re-match and didn't get a re-match. He was declined a re-match vs Lewis for sure. Byrd was in busy with a certain wired hired promoter. That's all I am saying. I did not take anything heated. Except for maybe a Chicken Cheese Steak, with mushroom and onions ( note I didn't say Philly ) It must be close to lunch. Now I'm hungry.

[Dr. Z]

Greb was often said to have changed the spelling of his name backwards from Berg. This is where the idea of him being ***ish came from I'm sure. It is untrue though. He was indeed born with the last name Greb.

https://www.harrygreb.com/birthcertificate.html

Yes, I know, but what I don't know is if his grandfather's name was Berg. Names were changed then, and changed in boxing. Like I said the name Harry " Berg " is a ***ish name and the ***s initially placing him in their hall of fame makes me wonder if he was. Not that it matters.

[Rosco3387]

Greb was often said to have changed the spelling of his name backwards from Berg. This is where the idea of him being ***ish came from I'm sure. It is untrue though. He was indeed born with the last name Greb.

https://www.harrygreb.com/birthcertificate.html

I heard he was German.