1905 JJ Jeffries vs JJohnson?

[QueensburyRules]

Johnson toyed with Munroe.

According to the Philadelphia Record, it was plain Munroe had not really trained for this fight as he appeared flabby and pale, and had not learned anything since the loss to Jim Jeffries. As the ex-miner offered no real threat to Johnson, the Galveston heavyweight merely boxed with him from the third round on, making no serious attempt to put Munroe away but beating him badly.

"...Jack Johnson, the California colored heavyweight, made a veritable punching bag of Jack Munroe, the Butte Miner, at the National Athletic Club last night..."

Norton gave Ali 3 desperately close tough fights.
Norton fights Foreman and gets a taken out in2 one sided rounds. Foreman fights Ali and gets kod in8 rds.

A barely beats B who loses to C by ko,then A beats C.You have a childish and simplistic way of looking at fights and their results.
Jeffries retired because if he hadn't the growing pressure on him to face the best black fighters would have made his title reign untenable,

There was no money to be made for him by defending against any white fighters,he was bitterly dissapointed with his take for the Munroe farce and vowed he would not get involved in another.
It was," put up or shut up." So he shut up.
ps Jeffries didn't ko Griffin,Griffin retired with an injured hand.
You were at college?
What were you there,the janitor?
Hard Times Make Monkeys Eat Red Peppers

- - Promoters and $$$ Men look at immediate results in formulating matches, and fax are U boy JJ stunk like a fly on sheesh when he had near an open opportunity to fight Jeff in 1905.

U degrading honorable working folk like janitors suits U like a straight jacket.

[Willie Pep 229]

Here is a twist in logic.

What if JJ was worried about being too dominating of Hart and turned in a workman like performance so as not to scare off Jeffries?

If he was as masterful as praised he could control a fight from start to finish, taking it to whatever level he thought best.

Maybe he didn't understand the depth of racist hate; or maybe he did, but just didn't know which way to play it.

Either way his performance (the decision) made it easy for Jeffries to maintain the color line excuse.

Just food for thought.

[JAB5239]

Here is a twist in logic.

What if JJ was worried about being too dominating of Hart and turned in a workman like performance so as not to scare of Jeffries?

If he was as masterful as praised he could control a fight from start to finish, taking it to whatever level he thought best.

Maybe he didn't understand the depth of racist hate; or maybe he did, but just didn't know which way to play it.

Either way his performance (the decision) made it easy for Jeffries to maintain the color line excuse.

Just food for thought.

I've thought this scenario for more than a couple of the great Black fighters from that era, most notably Sam Langford. It makes sense. Unfortunately it probably can never be proven.

[Dr. Z]

Johnson toyed with Munroe.

According to the Philadelphia Record, it was plain Munroe had not really trained for this fight as he appeared flabby and pale, and had not learned anything since the loss to Jim Jeffries. As the ex-miner offered no real threat to Johnson, the Galveston heavyweight merely boxed with him from the third round on, making no serious attempt to put Munroe away but beating him badly.

"...Jack Johnson, the California colored heavyweight, made a veritable punching bag of Jack Munroe, the Butte Miner, at the National Athletic Club last night..."

Norton gave Ali 3 desperately close tough fights.
Norton fights Foreman and gets a taken out in2 one sided rounds. Foreman fights Ali and gets kod in8 rds.

A barely beats B who loses to C by ko,then A beats C.You have a childish and simplistic way of looking at fights and their results.
Jeffries retired because if he hadn't the growing pressure on him to face the best black fighters would have made his title reign untenable,

There was no money to be made for him by defending against any white fighters,he was bitterly dissapointed with his take for the Munroe farce and vowed he would not get involved in another.
It was," put up or shut up." So he shut up.
ps Jeffries didn't ko Griffin,Griffin retired with an injured hand.
You were at college?
What were you there,the janitor?
Hard Times Make Monkeys Eat Red Peppers

Johnson took an out shape Munroe the distance. Jeffries destroyed an in shape man Munroe in two rounds. There might be a difference . Just might. List the source that that Griffin retried with an injured hard? BS. Jerrries said he was out in the air like a dead duck when descibing the KO.

SUCH lies.

[Dr. Z]

The offer you refer to from McIntosh that Johnson accepted was followed days later by Johnson making additional financial demands. This is all mentioned in Moyle's Langford bio. So Johnson hadn't really accepted anything. These extra demands had not been resolved when McIntosh decided to cancel negotiations due to the Mann Act charges. McIntosh was of the opinion that Johnson just did not wish to face Langford.

The NSC didn't spring anything on Johnson. He knew in advance he was agreeing to face Langford as champion if he beat Burns. So he backed out of a signed agreement to face Langford by demanding more money. Incidentally, the £1000/$5000 (plus 33% of the motion picture rights) he was offered was almost identical to what he was paid for O'Brien. He didn't receive anything close to his $30,000 guarantee until Jeffries.

I have both of Pollack's Johnson books. He mentions Johnson turning down a number of other offers to face Langford too.

If anything Johnson's willingness to face Jeannette doesn't reflect well him on since Jeannette was inferior to Langford. At the time of those negotiations Jeannette hadn't beaten Langford since 1905, in Sam's first fight against a heavyweight. offer you refer to from McIntosh that Johnson accepted was followed days later by Johnson making additional financial demands. This is all mentioned in Moyle's Langford bio. So Johnson hadn't really accepted anything. These extra demands had not been resolved when McIntosh decided to cancel negotiations due to the Mann Act charges. McIntosh was of the opinion that Johnson just did not wish to face Langford.

The NSC didn't spring anything on Johnson. He knew in advance he was agreeing to face Langford as champion if he beat Burns. So he backed out of a signed agreement to face Langford by demanding more money. Incidentally, the £1000/$5000 (plus 33% of the motion picture rights) he was offered was almost identical to what he was paid for O'Brien. He didn't receive anything close to his $30,000 guarantee until Jeffries.

I have both of Pollack's Johnson books. He mentions Johnson turning down a number of other offers to face Langford too.

If anything Johnson's willingness to face Jeannette doesn't reflect well him on since Jeannette was inferior to Langford. At the time of those negotiations Jeannette hadn't beaten Langford since 1905, in Sam's first fight against a heavyweight.

- Steve Compton, historian

Oh Ivich

I know your reading this. Care to reply directly? Your battleship has been sunk.

[Ivich]

Johnson toyed with Munroe.

According to the Philadelphia Record, it was plain Munroe had not really trained for this fight as he appeared flabby and pale, and had not learned anything since the loss to Jim Jeffries. As the ex-miner offered no real threat to Johnson, the Galveston heavyweight merely boxed with him from the third round on, making no serious attempt to put Munroe away but beating him badly.

"...Jack Johnson, the California colored heavyweight, made a veritable punching bag of Jack Munroe, the Butte Miner, at the National Athletic Club last night..."

Norton gave Ali 3 desperately close tough fights.
Norton fights Foreman and gets a taken out in2 one sided rounds. Foreman fights Ali and gets kod in8 rds.

A barely beats B who loses to C by ko,then A beats C.You have a childish and simplistic way of looking at fights and their results.
Jeffries retired because if he hadn't the growing pressure on him to face the best black fighters would have made his title reign untenable,

There was no money to be made for him by defending against any white fighters,he was bitterly dissapointed with his take for the Munroe farce and vowed he would not get involved in another.
It was," put up or shut up." So he shut up.
ps Jeffries didn't ko Griffin,Griffin retired with an injured hand.
You were at college?
What were you there,the janitor?
Hard Times Make Monkeys Eat Red Peppers

"Johnson took an out shape Munroe the distance. Jeffries destroyed an in shape man Munroe in two rounds. There might be a difference . Just might. List the source that that Griffin retried with an injured hard? BS. Jerrries said he was out in the air like a dead duck when descibing the KO."

Hard to answer gibberish but the source for Griffin retiring with an injured hand is Griffin himself and its related on Box Rec.

"Exact date is uncertain. This fight was listed in Griffin's record in Oakland Tribune. Griffin talks about this bout in one interview but claims it went 17 rounds, but that he hurt his hands and had to quit".Box Rec

Griffin's account is a first hand interview

Jeffries account is from," My Life And Battles," a ghosted biography.


Box Rec also speculates it was an amateur fight. Johnson rarely went for the stoppage in fights,if there was no danger to himself he was usually content to coast outclassing his opponent.
Munroe was totally out of his depth with Johnson and won nothing

Comparing Jeffries stopping Munroe and Johnson toying with him,and implying the differing results mean something is not only agenda driven ******ity ,it is just plain illogical .
EG
Ruhlin held Jeffries,[not Jerrries] to a draw in their 1 st fight then he retired in the 6th fully conscious.

Sharkey went the distance twice with Jeffries for a total of 45 rounds and many thought him deserving of at least a draw in one of the contests.


Fitzsimmons nearly killed Ruhlin who had to be dragged back to his corner and have a Doctor in attendance all night as it was thought his life was in danger.
Fitz twice ko'd Sharkey.

Fitz fought Jeffries twice and was stopped in both contests.

Such simplistic comparisons are the hallmark of an idiot!

.

[Ivich]

- Steve Compton, historian

Oh Ivich

I know your reading this. Care to reply directly? Your battleship has been sunk.

Old Steve who three times called you a LIAR?
Old Steve who unwisely got into a protracted argument with Pollack an Attorney and an author of two volumes on Johnson, about the legal ramifications of Johnson and the Mann act and was publicly humiliated on Classic?
Steve is an historian?
I thought he had written one book,on Harry Greb?

Steve who having seen a picture of Marciano after the Louis fight grinning into the camera without his front teeth,unaware that Rocky wore a plate told the Classic forum the Joe Louis' jab had knocked them out, and when I pointed this out never responded or mentioned it again?

That Steve?lol

[Ivich]

- - Promoters and $$$ Men look at immediate results in formulating matches, and fax are U boy JJ stunk like a fly on sheesh when he had near an open opportunity to fight Jeff in 1905.

U degrading honorable working folk like janitors suits U like a straight jacket.

JEFFRIES PUBLICLY STATED COUNTLESS TIMES THAT SHOULD JOHNSON BEAT HART HE WOULD NEVER FIGHT HIM.

I don't degrade working folk ,only planks like you and I must admit you give me plenty of assistance!lol

My boy JJ ?

I'm not the one making threads about him,I've never made one here about Johnson!

That's you and the other 2 stooges doing that!
It's like a sort of mania you have!


ps Got any more stores of cornermen crawling under rings and shouting stop the fight when their man has won every round?LOL!!!

[Dr. Z]

The offer you refer to from McIntosh that Johnson accepted was followed days later by Johnson making additional financial demands. This is all mentioned in Moyle's Langford bio. So Johnson hadn't really accepted anything. These extra demands had not been resolved when McIntosh decided to cancel negotiations due to the Mann Act charges. McIntosh was of the opinion that Johnson just did not wish to face Langford.

The NSC didn't spring anything on Johnson. He knew in advance he was agreeing to face Langford as champion if he beat Burns. So he backed out of a signed agreement to face Langford by demanding more money. Incidentally, the £1000/$5000 (plus 33% of the motion picture rights) he was offered was almost identical to what he was paid for O'Brien. He didn't receive anything close to his $30,000 guarantee until Jeffries.

I have both of Pollack's Johnson books. He mentions Johnson turning down a number of other offers to face Langford too.

If anything Johnson's willingness to face Jeannette doesn't reflect well him on since Jeannette was inferior to Langford. At the time of those negotiations Jeannette hadn't beaten Langford since 1905, in Sam's first fight against a heavyweight. offer you refer to from McIntosh that Johnson accepted was followed days later by Johnson making additional financial demands. This is all mentioned in Moyle's Langford bio. So Johnson hadn't really accepted anything. These extra demands had not been resolved when McIntosh decided to cancel negotiations due to the Mann Act charges. McIntosh was of the opinion that Johnson just did not wish to face Langford.

The NSC didn't spring anything on Johnson. He knew in advance he was agreeing to face Langford as champion if he beat Burns. So he backed out of a signed agreement to face Langford by demanding more money. Incidentally, the £1000/$5000 (plus 33% of the motion picture rights) he was offered was almost identical to what he was paid for O'Brien. He didn't receive anything close to his $30,000 guarantee until Jeffries.

I have both of Pollack's Johnson books. He mentions Johnson turning down a number of other offers to face Langford too.

If anything Johnson's willingness to face Jeannette doesn't reflect well him on since Jeannette was inferior to Langford. At the time of those negotiations Jeannette hadn't beaten Langford since 1905, in Sam's first fight against a heavyweight.

What's that Ivich? I don't see a reply to this. And I don't see your replaying to what I said about comparing Moore in the Marciano thread to all the small guy who beat or drew with Johnson. You are exposed as a lair and can't dispute the facts in the quote. I challenge you to reply to the above quote.

And don't forget he " thinks " Jack Johnson punches harder than R. Bowe!

[QueensburyRules]

What's that Ivich? I don't see a reply to this. And I don't see your replaying to what I said about comparing Moore in the Marciano thread to all the small guy who beat or drew with Johnson. You are exposed as a lair and can't dispute the facts in the quote. I challenge you to reply to the above quote.

And don't forget he " thinks " Jack Johnson punches harder than R. Bowe!

- - R. Bowel?

Or Bowel?

Possibly bowed out bowels in an uproar as usual?