1905 JJ Jeffries vs JJohnson?

[Dr. Z]

There you go off topic again. I asked a simple question.


Why are you accusing him of not mentioning the contract when he clearly has mentioned it? He clearly has addressed this already, has he not?

On topic again. I am not accusing him of when he signed the contact pulling out of it to avoid Langford! All this fights with Ross who was had won just one of his last eights fights ( the worst recored leading up a title Kaufman who was Ko'd seven times in his career. Were made. Talk about cherry picking.

Say what, Ross had Johnson hurt? It would appear so.

The Pittsburgh Post did not consider this to be a title fight. Johnson was an easy winner. Johnson sent Ross down for a count of nine in the first round. Ross went down again in the third for a count of eight. In the fourth round, Ross landed his only telling blow of the fight, a vicious right hand that shook Johnson. Johnson battered Ross over the last two rounds. According to Pennsylvania State Law the bout was officially a Draw.

and

"Jack Johnson had no trouble winning a 'newspaper' decision over Al Kaufman this afternoon in ten rounds. There was an agreement that no decision was to be rendered if both were on their feet at the end "

Say what you will this fight is a no decision. And Ross getting a title fight was a joke, and not a title fight.

This is but one thing you won't read from his " reply ". But I'm bringing forth facts to read. Do you find find them relevant? Well? A reply is appreciated to my question and statements in this thread.

[Dr. Z]

If you look at Ivich's post, he says it was signed in 1908.

You really just like to lie and duck questions, don't you.

Did he address the contract, or are you telling a lie about him? It's simple. You don't seem to want to answer. I guess we know who is dishonest here.

It's the date of the signed contact I'm looking for. He obvisouly fought Burns in dec 1908, but come 1909 Johnson had no intention of fighting Langford! That what I'm saying.

You are ducking my questions and making false acquisitions. Exactly how am I lying? Please explain. I think your just saying that to cover for him. You've got a lot to cover for based on his outrageous opinions and omissions of fact. Again read what I said.

[travestyny]

It's the date of the signed contact I'm looking for. He obvisouly fought Burns in dec 1908, but come 1909 Johnson had no intention of fighting Langford! That what I'm saying.

You are ducking my questions and making false acquisitions. Exactly how am I lying? Please explain. I think your just saying that to cover for him. You've got a lot to cover for based on his outrageous opinions and omissions of fact. Again read what I said.

I'm not following what you are talking about. You seem to be accusing him of not mentioning the contract at all. Is that what this means or not?

Your dishonest as leaving out information such as Jack Johnson signed a contract to meet with Sam Langford in 1909 but pulled out of the match.

He also mentioned the year it was signed. So what exactly are you accusing him of doing, because I can't understand what the actual fvvck you've been trying to say, or ask, in your last two posts.

He clearly addressed this, and made it clear that Jack Johnson didn't honor the contract because the sum of money was much too small for him to defend his title.

[Dr. Z]

I'm not following what you are talking about. You seem to be accusing him of not mentioning the contract at all. Is that what this means or not?



He also mentioned the year it was signed. So what exactly are you accusing him of doing, because I can't understand what the actual fvvck you've been trying to say, or ask, in your last two posts.

He clearly addressed this, and made it clear that Jack Johnson didn't honor the contract because the sum of money was much too small for him to defend his title.

I am asking for the date as in Month and day. Johnson had fights for peanuts. In 1909 with Ross for example fought 6 rounder with Ross who won 1 of his last 8 fights. Johnson failed to honor a signed contact because he fought easier marks, I think for less money. Yet he didn't have time for Langford? Why?? Johnson's signature and word meant nothing. Don't lose your poise now. If he pulled that in modern times, he would be sued and forced to pay compensation. Got it now? It called an obvious DUCK in signed contact. That what Johnson did.

END.

[travestyny]

I am asking for the date as in Month and day. Johnson had fights for peanuts. In 1909 with Ross for example fought 6 rounder with Ross who won 1 of his last 8 fights. Johnson failed to honor a signed contact because he fought easier marks, I think for less money. Yet he didn't have time for Langford? Why?? Johnson's signature and word meant nothing. Don't lose your poise now. If he pulled that in modern times, he would be sued and forced to pay compensation. Got it now? It called an obvious DUCK in signed contact. That what Johnson did.

END.

No I don't got it now. You are still ducking the question as per usual.

Where did Ivich ignore the contract. You saying he ignored the contract because he didn't tell you the month and day of the contract is the ******est thing I've ever heard. I told you before. Do your own damn research.


Just admit you told an outright lie about him period.

By the way, Johnson agreed to fight Langford at least 3 times. We all know this already. But you'd rather tell lies about posters than accepting what has already been proven it seems. No one is falling for it except those who already have an agenda.

[GhostofDempsey]

I am asking for the date as in Month and day. Johnson had fights for peanuts. In 1909 with Ross for example fought 6 rounder with Ross who won 1 of his last 8 fights. Johnson failed to honor a signed contact because he fought easier marks, I think for less money. Yet he didn't have time for Langford? Why?? Johnson's signature and word meant nothing. Don't lose your poise now. If he pulled that in modern times, he would be sued and forced to pay compensation. Got it now? It called an obvious DUCK in signed contact. That what Johnson did.

END.

Johnson also lied when he said he didn’t sign the contract to fight Langford, he claimed it was his manager, that was proven to be a lie. Difficult to keep up with Johnson’s many lies, similar to his fans! Lol.

[Rosco3387]

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[QueensburyRules]

You can claim anything you want about me. That's fine.

How about yourself and your buddies here? I imagine you think you all are just fantastic members of the history section when you spread your lies to fit an agenda, right?

I, like Ivich, post various sources to back up what I say. You and your buddies post on emotion. Isn't that right? I mean after all, we are still waiting for your proof that Wills ducked Dempsey. Or were you just joking? Did you finally make up your mind or what?



And when have I ever declared winning anything, or is this more lies? I can't win anything when there is no competition. When I offered a formal debate, your buddies backed down didn't they?

- - Nah, as I recall you put em on ignore and then moaned about why they weren't responding.

No matter, 1905 was the time for JJohnson to make a statement, and he failed, first vs Hart in another stinker mashup, and then vs improving Kid Jeannette.

He coulda had Jeff in that bar for the 5x $100 gold pieces Jeff slapped on the bar if he won their basement bare knucks fight, but his manhood failed him just like it did against Hart when he could only grab and stink.

All he had to do is fight Hart and whoop him like a man that the ref kept trying to guide him into doing.

To wit:

"Marvin Hart was awarded the decision over Jack Johnson in a twenty-round contest last night that went the limit, but he came far from demonstrating that he is qualified to meet Jim Jeffries. Hart was game and kept boring into the big colored man all through the fight. Johnson's much-vaunted cleverness did not count for much. While he was able to hit Hart frequently, his blows did not seem to damage the white man from Kentucky. The sympathies of the large crowd were openly with Hart, who was at the short end in the betting, and every lead he made at Johnson, whether he landed or not, was greeted with cheers. Hart managed to deal the only effective blow in the eleventh round, when he landed a right swing on Johnson's jaw that staggered the black man and nearly knocked him over. Referee Greggains stated that he gave the decision to Hart, because all through the fight Hart did all the forcing and leading. According to Greggains, if Hart had not pursued his tactics there would have been no fight, as Johnson merely contented himself with countering. Hart's face was battered to a pulp, but Johnson's blows did not seem to have much sting to them. Johnson did a great deal of uppercutting, but Hart covered up and the blows did not seem to hurt him." (Washington Post)

[Ivich]

- - Nah, as I recall you put em on ignore and then moaned about why they weren't responding.

No matter, 1905 was the time for JJohnson to make a statement, and he failed, first vs Hart in another stinker mashup, and then vs improving Kid Jeannette.

He coulda had Jeff in that bar for the 5x $100 gold pieces Jeff slapped on the bar if he won their basement bare knucks fight, but his manhood failed him just like it did against Hart when he could only grab and stink.

All he had to do is fight Hart and whoop him like a man that the ref kept trying to guide him into doing.

To wit:

"Marvin Hart was awarded the decision over Jack Johnson in a twenty-round contest last night that went the limit, but he came far from demonstrating that he is qualified to meet Jim Jeffries. Hart was game and kept boring into the big colored man all through the fight. Johnson's much-vaunted cleverness did not count for much. While he was able to hit Hart frequently, his blows did not seem to damage the white man from Kentucky. The sympathies of the large crowd were openly with Hart, who was at the short end in the betting, and every lead he made at Johnson, whether he landed or not, was greeted with cheers. Hart managed to deal the only effective blow in the eleventh round, when he landed a right swing on Johnson's jaw that staggered the black man and nearly knocked him over. Referee Greggains stated that he gave the decision to Hart, because all through the fight Hart did all the forcing and leading. According to Greggains, if Hart had not pursued his tactics there would have been no fight, as Johnson merely contented himself with countering. Hart's face was battered to a pulp, but Johnson's blows did not seem to have much sting to them. Johnson did a great deal of uppercutting, but Hart covered up and the blows did not seem to hurt him." (Washington Post)

Jeffries put no money on the bar that is total fiction.
Why would Johnson consent to fight Jeffries in a cellar for nothing?
He wanted him in a ring for the title and a massive pay day and he had to wait for 5 years before it happened.
Greggains was also the promoter for the fight so he wanted all action fighters and preferably white ones..

Johnson finished the fight unmarked Hart was a mess.
Not being able to stop a fighter and him walking through your punches doesn't mean he deserved the decision.
Punches landed score points,they don't have to be power punches and aggression should only score points if it is effective aggression.

If coming forward scores points Kambosos would be the new champion instead of Devin Haney still retaining his crown!
George Siler the premier referee of that era stated Greggains gave ,"an exceedingly strange decision".

[Willie Pep 229]

Jeffries put no money on the bar that is total fiction.
Why would Johnson consent to fight Jeffries in a cellar for nothing?
He wanted him in a ring for the title and a massive pay day and he had to wait for 5 years before it happened.
Greggains was also the promoter for the fight so he wanted all action fighters and preferably white ones..

Johnson finished the fight unmarked Hart was a mess.
Not being able to stop a fighter and him walking through your punches doesn't mean he deserved the decision.
Punches landed score points,they don't have to be power punches and aggression should only score points if it is effective aggression.

If coming forward scores points Kambosos would be the new champion instead of Devin Haney still retaining his crown!
George Siler the premier referee of that era stated Greggains gave ,"an exceedingly strange decision".

Was the bold above part of the day's thinking?

I am not trying to play down the black-white issue, that's obvious and part of the color line history.

But I wonder if the referee's decision and explanation wasn't an easy shallow for the white crowd.

Points scored doesn't seen to be part of the period's dialog or temperature. Pushing a fight forward may have been more important, than it is today, to the uneducated viewer of that day. It may not have been such an obvious wrong.

Maybe Johnson should have understood that and been mote aggressive?

Then again (fence sitting) maybe the decision was preordained if the white man was still standing at the end.