1905 JJ Jeffries vs JJohnson?

[Ivich]

Why would I post it. YOU post it, unless YOU are afraid to. I've already posted his quotations here. Show us where he offered Johnson a shot at the title and when he said if he was younger he would have won.

Go for it. Stop asking people to do the work for you since you are clearly the one who is butthurt over his quotations.

" Dont fall for any story that Jeff was doped,because all the trouble with Jeffries was that he was badly scared."Jack Root.

"Jeffries did not lack condition ,he lacked courage" Joe Choynski.

.Rickard was very high on Johnson.He said that Johnson allowed Jeffries to hit him in the stomach."

"He just pulled his hand away leaving Jeffries left free and told him to punch him in the stomach.

Jeff did and then Johnson told him to punch him there again.

Well Jeff pulled his hand back to send in the other one,but like a flash Johnson uppercut him on the jaw.

The next round I heard Johnson tell Jeff,he was welcome to punch him in the stomach again if he wanted to,

and pulled his had away, leaving the opening ,but Jeff didnt bite."

BulletinJuly 26th 1910.


MORE TO COME



NB

1. I have never made a Johnson thread on this forum.

2. I post threads on fighters from many different weight divisions

3. I post verified quotes if somebody does not like them they should take it up with the newspapers that published them .

4.There is hatred on this thread and it comes from three sources;

Ghost Of Desperation

Queensbury Fool

Dr Zenophobic

It's a pity the hand wringing fence sitter who complained about my post could not bring himself to address their obsessional

hatred of Johnson ,but as he is a member of that Quasi Quartet I'm not surprised he didn't .



HYPOCRISY at its most blatant!

[GhostofDempsey]

He is a congenital liar who was notorious for his Johnson hatred on Classic,It seems like he has found two more haters to pal up with.

Jack Johnson is the only reason he visits boxing forums,to unload his poison on the man.

There is something eerily unhealthy about it.It's a phobic sickness.after interacting with him about his obsession you feel a little unclean. he has told

so many lies over the years I think he really believes them by now.

Show us the lies on this thread. I posted an actual quote from Jeffries. You do nothing but spout insults towards anyone disagreeing with you and kiss the ass of anyone who agrees with you. You crave validation. When you are presented with facts, you deny them, deflect, and double down on insults while feigning ignorance. You are obsessed with defending Johnson at all costs. The only sickness here is you and your antagonistic sidekick who behaves the exact same way.

[Willie Pep 229]

Does this thread have a theme?

1. Was Jeffries scared of Johnson?

2. Did Jeffries ever believe he could have beaten Johnson?

3. Did Johnson dominate Jeffries?

4. Or is this nothing more than an excuse for a "lets bash Jeffries" go?

1A. To call any of these men scared makes one a prick. He did it, you didn't.

2B. We seem to have multiple sources contradicting eachother; my guess he probably said both.

3C. Yes, we not only have film but JJ's domination has always been boxing's conventual wisdom. Nothing new being offered here.

4D. So are we going to just look for more demeaning quotes and makes lists of them? I fear so!

MORE TO COME (watch out for the hate.)

[Ivich]

" Dont fall for any story that Jeff was doped,because all the trouble with Jeffries was that he was badly scared."Jack Root.

"Jeffries did not lack condition ,he lacked courage" Joe Choynski.

.Rickard was very high on Johnson.He said that Johnson allowed Jeffries to hit him in the stomach."

"He just pulled his hand away leaving Jeffries left free and told him to punch him in the stomach.

Jeff did and then Johnson told him to punch him there again.

Well Jeff pulled his hand back to send in the other one,but like a flash Johnson uppercut him on the jaw.

The next round I heard Johnson tell Jeff,he was welcome to punch him in the stomach again if he wanted to,

and pulled his had away, leaving the opening ,but Jeff didnt bite."

BulletinJuly 26th 1910.


MORE TO COME



NB

1. I have never made a Johnson thread on this forum.

2. I post threads on fighters from many different weight divisions

3. I post verified quotes if somebody does not like them they should take it up with the newspapers that published them .

4.There is hatred on this thread and it comes from three sources;

Ghost Of Desperation

Queensbury Fool

Dr Zenophobic

It's a pity the hand wringing fence sitter who complained about my post could not bring himself to address their obsessional

hatred of Johnson ,but as he is a member of that Quasi Quartet I'm not surprised he didn't .



HYPOCRISY at its most blatant!

Rather than engage directly with liars I'll add to my posts.
I actually think its important and worthwhile to try and discover if Jeffries suffered a mental collapse before he enter the ring with Johnson..

" This ****** is going to give me the toughest fight I ever had.

He won't lead and I will have to carry the fight to him,and do all the breaking away in the clinches." Jim Jeffries San Francisco Evening Post July 27th 1910.
" JimJeffries

When Jeffries entered the ring, he was plainly very nervous.When he stood up to be introduced his knees shook.
The reason was plain.Jeffries knew he had not come back.

Johnson told me he could beat Jeffries on the latter's best day;now I believe it."
" The white champion was,outclassed in speed ,strength ,and hitting ability,and the hopes of his admirers were speedily dashed when they observed

that in the clinches the negro was stronger".

Hugh McIntosh Boxing August 13th 1910

" Langford could not make a show with Johnson,he's too small. Then too two black men fighting would not draw a crowd.

Johnson told me he would be willing to meet Langford,but he knew a fight between blacks would not make any money."
July 7th 1910.
"When they clinched in the 8th round Jack said I've got your measure Mr Jeffries,

and I am going to put ypu out anytime I want to." George Kid Cotton.

.Johnson commended Jeffries for his gameness in several interviews

[Willie Pep 229]

Rather than engage directly with liars I'll add to my posts.
I actually think its important and worthwhile to try and discover if Jeffries suffered a mental collapse before he enter the ring with Johnson..

" This ****** is going to give me the toughest fight I ever had.

He won't lead and I will have to carry the fight to him,and do all the breaking away in the clinches." Jim Jeffries San Francisco Evening Post July 27th 1910.
" JimJeffries

When Jeffries entered the ring, he was plainly very nervous.When he stood up to be introduced his knees shook.
The reason was plain.Jeffries knew he had not come back.

Johnson told me he could beat Jeffries on the latter's best day;now I believe it."
" The white champion was,outclassed in speed ,strength ,and hitting ability,and the hopes of his admirers were speedily dashed when they observed

that in the clinches the negro was stronger".

Hugh McIntosh Boxing August 13th 1910

" Langford could not make a show with Johnson,he's too small. Then too two black men fighting would not draw a crowd.

Johnson told me he would be willing to meet Langford,but he knew a fight between blacks would not make any money."
July 7th 1910.
"When they clinched in the 8th round Jack said I've got your measure Mr Jeffries,

and I am going to put ypu out anytime I want to." George Kid Cotton.

.Johnson commended Jeffries for his gameness in several interviews

Just for comparison sake can I conclude that this mental breakdown you are searching out with Jeffries might be equivalent to saying Foreman broke down during the delay before the Zaire fight?

Or are you saying more . . .

[Ivich]

Rather than engage directly with liars I'll add to my posts.
I actually think its important and worthwhile to try and discover if Jeffries suffered a mental collapse before he enter the ring with Johnson..

" This ****** is going to give me the toughest fight I ever had.

He won't lead and I will have to carry the fight to him,and do all the breaking away in the clinches." Jim Jeffries San Francisco Evening Post July 27th 1910.
" JimJeffries

When Jeffries entered the ring, he was plainly very nervous.When he stood up to be introduced his knees shook.
The reason was plain.Jeffries knew he had not come back.

Johnson told me he could beat Jeffries on the latter's best day;now I believe it."
" The white champion was,outclassed in speed ,strength ,and hitting ability,and the hopes of his admirers were speedily dashed when they observed

that in the clinches the negro was stronger".

Hugh McIntosh Boxing August 13th 1910

" Langford could not make a show with Johnson,he's too small. Then too two black men fighting would not draw a crowd.

Johnson told me he would be willing to meet Langford,but he knew a fight between blacks would not make any money."
July 7th 1910.
"When they clinched in the 8th round Jack said I've got your measure Mr Jeffries,

and I am going to put ypu out anytime I want to." George Kid Cotton.

.Johnson commended Jeffries for his gameness in several interviews

Foreman had no breakdown. Did Jeffries?Thats what Im attempting to find out,he was described as crying with tears rolling down his face in the dressing room as he laced up his boots.


If anyone does not want to know what ;

Jack Root
Jack Johnson
Tex Rickard
Charles Naughton
Bob Fitzsimmons.
Jim Corbett
Joe Choynski
Hugh McIntosh

And others had to say about it,the remedy is in their hands,

DONT READ MY POSTS!

I'm not saying he had a mental collapse.some of them said it!

If that makes me a hater in some ones eyes , for posting these quotes then I'm a hater, and I'm very comfortable with my M O on this.

[GhostofDempsey]

Foreman had no breakdown. Did Jeffries?Thats what Im attempting to find out,he was described as crying with tears rolling down his face in the dressing room as he laced up his boots.


If anyone does not want to know what ;

Jack Root
Jack Johnson
Tex Rickard
Charles Naughton
Bob Fitzsimmons.
Jim Corbett
Joe Choynski
Hugh McIntosh

And others had to say about it,the remedy is in their hands,

DONT READ MY POSTS!

I'm not saying he had a mental collapse.some of them said it!

If that makes me a hater in some ones eyes , for posting these quotes then I'm a hater, and I'm very comfortable with my M O on this.

Foreman ran out of his dressing room naked claiming he saw Jesus after his loss to Young. You can blame it on dehydration if you want, but that was a mental breakdown. He disappeared for a decade afterwards.

[QueensburyRules]

Foreman ran out of his dressing room naked claiming he saw Jesus after his loss to Young. You can blame it on dehydration if you want, but that was a mental breakdown. He disappeared for a decade afterwards.

- - Ran out of the showers claiming a Jesus visitation with his own resurrection, and indeed, t'is exactly the way the Big George Boxing thread played out.

[travestyny]

NO. You omit information that serves your agenda!!! I charge you with that. I answered your CRT thread quite clearly and said its if a function of culture that the students are raised in, flunking out of school at a high percentage and not having parents to guide them is the case too often. That has nothing to due with biological race. I did not run away, I simply let your be. Your mind and heart is made up. You're a clown. I told you the reason why CRT is junk. Now I can see why I can see why prop up you and over rate Jack Johnson. It's your agenda. Do not try to do it again, we can post newspapers too.

There is a more detailed news article right after the fight where Jeffries said if he was younger he would have won. READ it, and DO NOT avoid showing us. I'll give you a chance to post it, that is if you can stomach it. Do you really think I can't repost a news article after posting many here?

Jeffries had not fought in six years and was old. No one in boxing history took that much time off and came back at 35... Bob Fitzsimmons who sat ringside said Jeffries wasn't a quarter if the fighter he fought. That's who washed up he was. That is who Johnson beat. When Johnson fought men in their prime or slightly past it, he lost...a lot in his prime.

Klon***e, Choysnki, Griffin and Hart. And when Johnson was past it course he got KO'd by Willard and others. He didn't lose his fouling ways or quitting ways as its a known fact he QUIT twice. Not sure if you know that, but now you do because I told you.

You can charge me with anything you like. I didn't omit anything. It's up to YOU to do your own research. You haven't posted anything at all.

Still waiting for your proof that Jeffries offered Johnson a shot at the title. Are YOU going to post it up, or are you going to say that someone else should do it for you? I back up everything I say. What about you?

You didn't answer anything clearly. You ran away. Culture has nothing to do with the question I asked you. I asked if the schools themselves were the same quality, and you began talking about the students. What the actual fvvck would 5th graders have to do with the quality of the books, the technology, the teachers, the staff, etc.? Absolutely nothing. That's why you ducked the question and ran off.

And no, you said not one thing about CRT. You can't even define it, much less show how it is "junk." The information I posted about it that proves it is a sound theory, you never had any comeback for it because they are facts. You can't prove that redlining never existed. You haven't been able to disprove any of the studies I posted. Nothing. So I don't know why you keep bringing it back up except to show that you feel some kind of way about how you got rag dolled on the topic. Whenever you want another shot at it, I'm here. And you know I don't run off like a bltch like you do. So feel free to let me know and I'll embarrass you on the subject for a third time.



You giving me quotations about what others thought about Jeffries. I can do the same. Langford said he was the same old Jeffries or something to that effect. What does that mean? Nothing. Do I personally think he was the prime Jeffries. No, I don't. Do I think he could have beat Johnson if he was in his prime? Well like I said, I'd leave that up to Jeffries, and he answered the question in detail. If you want to argue with Jeffries opinion, then resurrect him and tell him that he's wrong about himself.

Johnson wasn't prime vs. Klon***e or Choynski. You don't think we see thorugh your bltch ways? If you want to hold those losses against him, then anything goes and you have to face that enormous asswhoopin he gave your boy. He might as well have thrown him over his lap and pulled out a paddle. That was an old fashion down south asswhoopin he gave him. Deal with it.

[Ivich]

Foreman had no breakdown. Did Jeffries?Thats what Im attempting to find out,he was described as crying with tears rolling down his face in the dressing room as he laced up his boots.


If anyone does not want to know what ;

Jack Root
Jack Johnson
Tex Rickard
Charles Naughton
Bob Fitzsimmons.
Jim Corbett
Joe Choynski
Hugh McIntosh

And others had to say about it,the remedy is in their hands,

DONT READ MY POSTS!

I'm not saying he had a mental collapse.some of them said it!

If that makes me a hater in some ones eyes , for posting these quotes then I'm a hater, and I'm very comfortable with my M O on this.

Foreman had an experience similar to Robinson,heat prostration, and extreme dehydration. Both became incoherent and disorientated.
No mental breakdown in either case.
And both have absolutely no relevance to Jeffries.

"It was the worst fight I ever saw Jeffries had no chance from the first sound of the gong to the end/" Tom Sharkey .

"Johnson is without question a great fighter.I believe he would have been a great fighter at any period of the pugilistic game.
Of course it is hard to compare him to the famous old timers,but I think he probably could have fought them on even terms.
I don't believe that Corbett at his best was any better as a boxer." Jake Kilrain

" The fight was a no contest."
" Johnson could have knocked his man out in any round after the first, but he was holding back ,perhaps

for the sake of the moving pictures,and perhaps because he had told his friends the fight would go a little distance." Stanley Ketchel.

" Johnson's showing was a big surprise".
"It was a one sided fight from start to finish Jeff did nothing effective.

Johnson never felt the force of his body blows,as he checked some and blocked others.

I heard hundreds of people applauding Jeff for scoring body blows ,when from my seat, I could plainly see

that they had been cleverly blocked by the other fellow." Tommy Burns.

" He is a big strong clean fighter,and has a powerful punch.

He is one of the cleverest we ever had.
I used to think he was only a defensive fighter.

He showed me today he is an offensive fighter as well.

When he wants to he can be terribly aggressive,I believe that if he had forced the fighting in the first round

,it would not have gone four rounds." Bob Fitzsimmons.

Although I boxed him and the majority of newspapers had given me the decision as far as cleverness was concerned.

I feel he would defeat me in a long contest."Jack O Brien.


" After Johnson grabbed Jeff's arms,pinned them behind him,and laughed in his face,Jeffries had an amazed and concerned look on his face." Jack McAuliffe,Boxing Jan14 th 1911.

" Johnson is the most wonderful fighter that ever pulled on a glove.


" I never had any doubts about licking him, as I had seen him fight Corbett,Sharkey,Munroe, Ruhlin and several other men."

It was a game and courageous man,whom I defeated.I never met better.

He simply could not hit me,I had him at all points of the game." Jack Johnson.

IMO
Jeffries deserves great credit for taking a bad beating and not looking for an easy way out.

Maybe the pressure got to him, maybe if he had sparred more ,or taken a couple of warm up fights things would have been different and he would have been more competitive?

But don't let any Johnson hater try and tell you he was ever in this fight,he wasn't!

Dr Zenophobic tried to tell the forum on classic that the fight could have been a draw after 10 rds.
Lying BS.

Johnson v Jeffries 1905?
Different proposition, Johnson just short of his prime.Jeffries **** in his.

Would have been a great fight, maybe like Ali v Frazier 1?

Prime for prime ,

Johnson for me, seven days a week.