If Dempsey Had Fought Wills?

[Dr. Z]

Dempsey fought Miske in September 1920
.You say Miske was dying yet he had a further 22 fights and only lost 1 of them over the next 3 years!
Miske died in 1924 4 years after the Dempsey fight.He sure took a long time dying!
Compare that to your hero Jeffries fighting the alcoholic and consumptive Peter Jackson whom Jeffries fought in1898.
Jackson had 1 more fight lost that and retired to die in1901.

You've got some nerve talking about double standards! LOL!

Jeffries fought Peter Jackson in stage 1 of TB in a not for a lineal title fight though it could be agued the Jacksons British empire crown was at stake, Needless to say the press said Jackson had regained his old form! If he was suffering at the time, it did not shown as he had a lively round one, and was essentially finished once Jeffries landed in round two.

Now getting back to who Dempsey fought and who he did not fight. Jeffries avoided no man if signfiance in his career. But Dempsey....he was suspect in quite a few bought and had some lucky draws.

" I agree Dempsey competition level aside from Tunney who took 18, or 19, of 20 rounds from him and Sharkey where he landed a low blow and hook to and unguarded chin when Sharkey was complaining showed Dempsey to be suspect. Aside for these two his competition was not good. He did not fight Greb or Wills, and he passed on a chance to fight a very old Jeanette who was in the ring and ready to go as well as Sam Langford who his manger said we were looking for someone easier. Sam was old and Dempsey is on quote that he avoid Sam, and at would have lost. He was Ko'd in one round by a worn out Fireman Flynn, and given boxing lessons by a porky Wille Meehan.

He beat an old and inactive Willard, and a sick and dying Miske. This is not to say he was not good. He was. He is also very over rated by many today. His best win is likely over a 175 pound Gibbons. That one was clean. Many of his other wins are shrouded with controversy. "

[JAB5239]

- - It would've been a great fight, but sadly the US politics were not nearly so advanced as early 20th Century boxing that killed a half dozen Wills/Dempsey fights not to mention others.

Had Will's taken the Tunney eliminator offered by Rickard and won, a fading Wills vs a rusty Dempsey almost guarantees a rockem/sockem, but not even that could happen.

Why did Wills need to fight an eliminator? He was the highest rated contender for Dempsey and the person that finished first in polls asking who Dempsey should fight next.

[Willie Pep 229]

Jeffries fought Peter Jackson in stage 1 of TB in a not for a lineal title fight though it could be agued the Jacksons British empire crown was at stake, Needless to say the press said Jackson had regained his old form! If he was suffering at the time, it did not shown as he had a lively round one, and was essentially finished once Jeffries landed in round two.

Now getting back to who Dempsey fought and who he did not fight. Jeffries avoided no man if signfiance in his career. But Dempsey....he was suspect in quite a few bought and had some lucky draws.

" I agree Dempsey competition level aside from Tunney who took 18, or 19, of 20 rounds from him and Sharkey where he landed a low blow and hook to and unguarded chin when Sharkey was complaining showed Dempsey to be suspect. Aside for these two his competition was not good. He did not fight Greb or Wills, and he passed on a chance to fight a very old Jeanette who was in the ring and ready to go as well as Sam Langford who his manger said we were looking for someone easier. Sam was old and Dempsey is on quote that he avoid Sam, and at would have lost. He was Ko'd in one round by a worn out Fireman Flynn, and given boxing lessons by a porky Wille Meehan.

He beat an old and inactive Willard, and a sick and dying Miske. This is not to say he was not good. He was. He is also very over rated by many today. His best win is likely over a 175 pound Gibbons. That one was clean. Many of his other wins are shrouded with controversy. "

We have debunked the boldface several times.

[Ivich]

Why did Wills need to fight an eliminator? He was the highest rated contender for Dempsey and the person that finished first in polls asking who Dempsey should fight next.

Wills had done more than enough to earn his shot,Tunney had no real intention of facing Wills.

[Ivich]

Jeffries fought Peter Jackson in stage 1 of TB in a not for a lineal title fight though it could be agued the Jacksons British empire crown was at stake, Needless to say the press said Jackson had regained his old form! If he was suffering at the time, it did not shown as he had a lively round one, and was essentially finished once Jeffries landed in round two.

Now getting back to who Dempsey fought and who he did not fight. Jeffries avoided no man if signfiance in his career. But Dempsey....he was suspect in quite a few bought and had some lucky draws.

" I agree Dempsey competition level aside from Tunney who took 18, or 19, of 20 rounds from him and Sharkey where he landed a low blow and hook to and unguarded chin when Sharkey was complaining showed Dempsey to be suspect. Aside for these two his competition was not good. He did not fight Greb or Wills, and he passed on a chance to fight a very old Jeanette who was in the ring and ready to go as well as Sam Langford who his manger said we were looking for someone easier. Sam was old and Dempsey is on quote that he avoid Sam, and at would have lost. He was Ko'd in one round by a worn out Fireman Flynn, and given boxing lessons by a porky Wille Meehan.

He beat an old and inactive Willard, and a sick and dying Miske. This is not to say he was not good. He was. He is also very over rated by many today. His best win is likely over a 175 pound Gibbons. That one was clean. Many of his other wins are shrouded with controversy. "

Dempsey fought Miske in September 1920 Miske went on to have another 22 fights over nearly 4 years
losing just 1
If he was dying as you say, he sure took his time about it!
Compare that with your hero Jeffries who fought an alcoholic and consumptive Peter Jackson in 1898.Thirty six years old Jackson had not fought for nearly 5 years!
Jackson had1 more fight lost that and died in1901.And you have the nerve to talk about double standards!lol GTF

Dempsey refused to fight Jeannette for free, he was booked to box an exhibition for charity with a different opponent, the opponent was paid not to turn up and Jeannette was substituted without either Dempsey's knowledge or consent.Shame on the promoter,shame on Jeannette,and shame on you for trying to make capital out of this farce. Dempsey was still in his teens when his flesh peddling manager[not MANGER,]John The Barber Reisler,tried to match him with Langford.Jack knew he wasn't ready for such a fight and declined.
Later when Langford was half blind and Sam Woodman had left him he tried for a match with then Champion Dempsey , Kearns Dempsey's manager let Langford down gently, at that stage of their respective careers1920- Dempsey would have slaughtered Sam ,

Willie Meehan beat Dempsey over 4 rds,he also beat Langford and Jeff Clark 6 months later,and had previously drawn with Miske and beaten Jack Dillon.

Meehan won2 from Dempsey lost 1 and had 2 draws.Meehan was a real force over shorter distances.

[Dr. Z]

Ivich


Which one of Dempsey's wins are clean without him struggling or fouling, getting knocked down , fighting a man who's dying from disease, or fighting a man who's over 35+ and hasn't been active. Go ahead and try to list the names. Taking this names away and he beat who? Who! List the names. We know who Dempsey avoided. They are hall of fame fighters. Four of them.

He is overrated today. He clearly used the color line. He struggled to beat some of his better competition and clearly lost to best in Tunney. And he lost and drew a lot and was lucky in the cards in one of these cases.

[Ivich]

Jeffries fought Peter Jackson in stage 1 of TB in a not for a lineal title fight though it could be agued the Jacksons British empire crown was at stake, Needless to say the press said Jackson had regained his old form! If he was suffering at the time, it did not shown as he had a lively round one, and was essentially finished once Jeffries landed in round two.

Now getting back to who Dempsey fought and who he did not fight. Jeffries avoided no man if signfiance in his career. But Dempsey....he was suspect in quite a few bought and had some lucky draws.

" I agree Dempsey competition level aside from Tunney who took 18, or 19, of 20 rounds from him and Sharkey where he landed a low blow and hook to and unguarded chin when Sharkey was complaining showed Dempsey to be suspect. Aside for these two his competition was not good. He did not fight Greb or Wills, and he passed on a chance to fight a very old Jeanette who was in the ring and ready to go as well as Sam Langford who his manger said we were looking for someone easier. Sam was old and Dempsey is on quote that he avoid Sam, and at would have lost. He was Ko'd in one round by a worn out Fireman Flynn, and given boxing lessons by a porky Wille Meehan.

He beat an old and inactive Willard, and a sick and dying Miske. This is not to say he was not good. He was. He is also very over rated by many today. His best win is likely over a 175 pound Gibbons. That one was clean. Many of his other wins are shrouded with controversy. "

Jackson had regained his old form? Since he had not fought for nearly 5 years how did they come to that conclusion?

"Jackson is a walking wreck,I would be ashamed to fight him.Tom Sharkey. Jeffries avoided Johnson ,Martin, and McVey whilst champion and took a loss defending against Munroe rather than face them. Dempsey mustn't defend against 175lbs Gibbons,but its okay for Jeffries to defend against'
172lbs Fitz,!83lbs Corbett, and 185lbs Sharkey?
Jeffries is the poster boy for weight advantage in heavyweight fights!
He had;
27lbs on Sharkey
47lbs on Fitz
30 on Corbett
60lbs on Finnegan
27lbs on Corbett
42lbs on Choynski
41 lbs on Fitz

DOUBLE STANDARDS!!!!!

NB Jackson was never the British Empire Champion and ,even if he had been Jeffries would not have been eligible to fight for it.

[Ivich]

Ivich


Which one of Dempsey's wins are clean without him struggling or fouling, getting knocked down , fighting a man who's dying from disease, or fighting a man who's over 35+ and hasn't been active. Go ahead and try to list the names. Taking this names away and he beat who? Who! List the names. We know who Dempsey avoided. They are hall of fame fighters. Four of them.

He is overrated today. He clearly used the color line. He struggled to beat some of his better competition and clearly lost to best in Tunney. And he lost and drew a lot and was lucky in the cards in one of these cases.

Off the top of my head
Brennan x2
Firpo
Carpentier
Fulton
Morrisx2
Smith x2
Levinsky
Miske
Gibbons

Do carry on with your assassinations of past champs, it is gaining you neither credibility or friends here.

[Dr. Z]

Jackson had regained his old form? Since he had not fought for nearly 5 years how did they come to that conclusion?

"Jackson is a walking wreck,I would be ashamed to fight him.Tom Sharkey. Jeffries avoided Johnson ,Martin, and McVey whilst champion and took a loss defending against Munroe rather than face them. Dempsey mustn't defend against 175lbs Gibbons,but its okay for Jeffries to defend against'
172lbs Fitz,!83lbs Corbett, and 185lbs Sharkey?
Jeffries is the poster boy for weight advantage in heavyweight fights!
He had;
27lbs on Sharkey
47lbs on Fitz
30 on Corbett
60lbs on Finnegan
27lbs on Corbett
42lbs on Choynski
41 lbs on Fitz

DOUBLE STANDARDS!!!!!

NB Jackson was never the British Empire Champion and ,even if he had been Jeffries would not have been eligible to fight for it.

I never said he didn't fight sub 200 points guys, only that he didn't lose to them! What Double standard are you talking about?

And Jackson was the British Empire champion you dolt!

[QUOTE]

Jackson won the Australian heavyweight championship in 1886 and the British Empire title in 1892.

[/QUOTE

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Peter-Jackson-Australian-boxer

Now, let's go back to Dempsey and the title of the thread.

Which one of Dempsey's wins are clean without him struggling or fouling, getting knocked down , fighting a man who's dying from disease, or fighting a man who's over 35+ and hasn't been active. Go ahead and try to list the names. Taking this names away and he beat who? Who! List the names. We know who Dempsey avoided. They are hall of fame fighters. Four of them.

He is overrated today. He clearly used the color line. He struggled to beat some of his better competition and clearly lost to best in Tunney. And he lost and drew a lot and was lucky in the cards in one of these cases.

[Dr. Z]

Off the top of my head
Brennan x2
Firpo
Carpentier
Fulton
Morrisx2
Smith x2
Levinsky
Miske
Gibbons

Do carry on with your assassinations of past champs, it is gaining you neither credibility or friends here.

He was down and almost out vs Brennan, down multiple time vs. Fripo, and beat a dying man in Miske! These wins has an * next to them. He beat Fulton and that one impressive, but the other ones were vs 175 pound men ( Levisnky and Carpentier ) Smith was OLD, and Morris was never Good. He did beat Gibbons who was another 175 pound man, Got any other names.

We can take a look at his draws and other fights.