Did Sam Langford knock Johnson down?

[Ivich]

You sad old man, the article clearly states with description and the round the knockdown happened! Johnson backed out of a signed contact period. Don't bother denying it. Do I need to repost the Gunboat Smith vs Jack Johnson exhibition match again? Johnson's manager saved him and halted the match after being floored! TKO. In good time I will reposted it here. How many excuses are there for Johnson? 102? The promoters called him a liar in the press. I can see why you defend him! Care to post what Langford, Jeanette, and others did about the fights not happening.

Johnson fought Battling Jim Johnson for well under $30,000.00! Well under 6,000 to. He would have made more with Langford and Jeanette.

Not really they fought the next night so were unavailable! Johnson would fight easier opponents for less but held out for $30,000 to face the top men,just as champions have done throughout the ages.Johnson was broke and in dire need of cash when he fought Battling Jim. he hadn't had a fight for a year and a half and spent money like water.
What did Johnsons manager save him from? He boxed three further opponents 2 rounds each that same day?
Who awarded Smith a tko win? There was no referee!
You will reposted it here? Well you go right ahead and reposter it whenever you want to! lol
"!

[Ivich]

Sam who lost the fight says he knocked Johnson down when he was approximately 20 years old and 156 pounds! He talks about the numerous offers that Johnson declined to fight him, Sam beating common opponents faster, and Johnson pulling out of a signed offer to fight Langford in 1909! Now that Langford is 30 pounds heavier Johnsons want no part of him! This is a 1911 article. Langford as you know was avoided. So was Gunboat Smith who TKO Johnson in an exhibition match in 1909 ( did you read that report? ), Jeannette, Mcvey, and he didn't make a fight with McCarty either. Nor Harry Wills. 5 men form 1909-1915. None them got a chance for a title shot. Some of them had enough time.

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SPDN1911...ngford-------1

That article says Langford dropped Johnson in the 1 st rd with a right hand.
Here is the fight report.
"There was little action to speak of in the either of the first two rounds".
No mention of a knock down.
Six or seven years later Langford told Duke Mullins that he dropped Johnson in the 5th round for a count of nine and that Johnson refused to engage with him after that.
So which round did Langford drop Johnson in, the 1st or the 5th?

According to Langford Johnson refused to engage with him after being dropped ,yet he went on to floor Langford 4 times?
How is that possible?
The fight was in Boston which Langford had made his home town,there is no mention of a knockdown in the 5th round in any of the Boston papers.Clay Moyle has checked them.
Johnson told Duke Mullins in1908 he went to the floor as a result of being off balance there was no count.
Johnson floored Langford for a count of 9 in the 6th round,and again before the round ended.KD1& KD2 for Johnson
" By the seventh it appeared Johnson was pitching a shut out;he would only need to win one more round to be assured of a victory on points should the fight go the distance".
He was relatively unmarked and sat smiling during the intermissions,while Sam's corner worked furiously to prepare him for each coming round".
"One of Sam's eyes had been closed by that time and his face evidenced the punishment he had been taking.The only question now seemed to be now whether Sam could go the distance."

" In the eighth Johnson moved easily about the ring as Langford began to slow,Sam tried to retreat,but Johnson caught him with an overhead right on the mouth,staggering him and knocking him back towards the ropes.
Johnson followed Langford to the ropes,raining a series of blows,and ending with a hard left hook sending Sam to the canvas.
The referee began to count,and Jack stood by waiting to hit Sam again should he rise.KD 3 for Johnson.

After what looked to many in the audience like a very slow count Langford rose at nine by grasping the rope and pulling himself upright.
A combination of punches sent Sam back to the mat" KD 4 for Johnson .

Johnson tried to put Langford away but Sam refused to go.
At the end of the twelth Langford's corner had to help him back to his stool.

The fact that Langford went the full 15 rds despite being floored 4 times and being in very bad shape 3 times is a testament to his courage and ability.Johnson was hurt from single punches on a couple of occasions but the size differential was just tpo much for Langford.

Q . Did Johnson knock Langford down?
A. Yes 4 times

Langford was a very great fighter, top5 all time P4P imo.and if anyone wanted to place him higher, I certainly would not argue with them.

[Dr. Z]

I like the rug? Do I?
You forced me to admit nothing I've repeated the contract story on here at least three times previously.
The NSC never offered Johnson$30,000 to fight anyone.
Vienne offered Johnson $ 20,000 to fight Jeannette not Langford,in fight to the finish he later upped it to $25,000 with Johnson to pay his own expenses.Johnson stood out for $30,000,He had accepted $30,000 to fight Jeannette over10rds in NY twice,why would he take less to travel to Paris to fight Jeannette>
The French Federation stripped Johnson of their version of the title and reinstated him a month later.Why are you posting this its common knowledge!

In1910 McIntosh offered Johnson only $15,000 plus expenses to fight Langford,with Johnson to put up the same amount as a guarantee.This wa s confirmed by Joe Woodman Langford s manager in the El Paso Herald Nov 4th 1910
NO McIntosh never offered Johnson a fight with Jeannette in Australia,Jeannette had never fought there his name meant nothing to Aussies.McIntosh offered Johnson a two fight deal, defences against Langford and McVey both of whom were known there.
Johnson accepted the deal .It was called off when Johnson jumped bail and became a fugitive.McIntosh went into print explaining that he was bowing to public opinion.His statement is in Pollack's book along with many others.

Johnson beat Flynn on the 4th of July1912 Flynn did not win a round and in the opinion of the referee fouled out to save himself from being ko'd.
Johnson got$31,500 for that easy afternoon's work.
Now tell me why the French would want to see a replay of it 3 months later?
Well that' s dealt with your hate agenda for the umpteenth time.I look forward to correcting your lies in the near future.

Oh yes I did! Keep ducking me, you always do. And stop with by suggesting the Polllack book excuse Johnson for not fighting the numerous offers made form him to fights McVey, Langford, and Jeanette. They do not.

Flynn wasn't in danger of being KO'd in 1912. I have some shocking ringside testimonials to share. You read them before you were banned! Remember them?


Hopefully the board sees right through your weak attempt to spin things for a fighter who didn't meet competition as champion. And they enjoy the link and words form one Sam Langford.

[Ivich]

Oh yes I did! Keep ducking me, you always do. And stop with by suggesting the Polllack book excuse Johnson for not fighting the numerous offers made form him to fights McVey, Langford, and Jeanette. They do not.

Flynn wasn't in danger of being KO'd in 1912. I have some shocking ringside testimonials to share. You read them before you were banned! Remember them?


Hopefully the board sees right through your weak attempt to spin things for a fighter who didn't meet competition as champion. And they enjoy the link and words form one Sam Langford.

The referee of the Flynn fight said that, in his opinion Flynn deliberately fouled out to save himself from a stoppage defeat. Flynn was totally outclassed.
Now your little snippet that you posted stated that Johnson had accepted a fight with Langford for$30,000,this allegedly from Sam's own mouth!

Langford, if indeed he did say those quotes attributed to him,stated that;
1.He weighed only140lbs fpr their fight, yet a year earlier he was 15lbs heavier``!
How is that possible?
Langford further stated that he knocked Johnson down for a count of 9 in the very 1st round.
Yet the Boston papers, Boston being his adopted town, made no mention of this?
How is that possible?
Several years later Langford told trainer Duke Mullins he knocked Johnson down in the 5th round.
So which round was it? The 1st ? or the 5th?
And did he weigh 140lbs or 156lbs
Time to make up your mind which fairy tale you are going to push! LOL
Ducking you?
I wipe my arse with you daily! LOL

[Willie Pep 229]

Langford says "It was just after the fight started."

Do we take that as meaning the first round?

Or does a 15 round fighter, when remembering, break down a fight into its early rounds, its middle rounds, and late rounds? Thus making his remark 'just after the fight started" still viable with a fifth round KD.

Eh!

[travestyny]

This Dr. Z idiot is just as bad as GhostofKlansman. Never can admit when they are wrong when something is clearly proven.


Here is Langford himself admitting that Johnson was never down in a fight up to that point.


Oh, and Dr. Z. You're not going to like what Langford had to say about your boy Jeffries conditioning for the Johnson fight


He admits that he chose Jeffries to beat Johnson just because he was "sore" at Johnson. Then goes on to say....

I knew that he[Johnson] was a great man. The day I saw him beat Jeffries made me surer. Jeffries was in good shape that day. He never could have taken the licking he did if he wasn't in great form. You know he was just as fast as ever, but he was like a baby when he boxed Johnson. I tell you that Johnson was so big, so strong, so clever. He has everything. He was never hurt, never had a black eye or a cut and never broke a hand, and he beat the best in the world. I call that considerable going.

He was never even tired in a fight. He just fought his own way, went about it in a business like way and made the other fellow look foolish. Hit? yes, Sir! I never hit the floor harder in my life than I did the night he hit me. I thought I'd go right through the floor of that ring. NOBODY EVER KNOCKED JOHNSON DOWN.

Right from Sam Langford's mouth. There was no knock down. Stop being bltches. Thanks.


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[travestyny]

Langford says "It was just after the fight started."

Do we take that as meaning the first round?

Or does a 15 round fighter, when remembering, break down a fight into its early rounds, its middle rounds, and late rounds? Thus making his remark 'just after the fight started" still viable with a fifth round KD.

Eh!

According to Langford it was right after the fight started, or in the middle of the fight, late in the fight, with a jab, or a body shot, or a hook, or an uppercut.


The story changed so many times. It didn't happen.

[Willie Pep 229]

So what good are quotes as history if we can produce multiple examples from the same primary, firsthand sources that contradict themselves?

Is anybody actually proving anything.

It's like Chuck Lorre's (The Big **** Theory) definition of quantive physics, "All one physicist can say is, my argument has a more inherent logic than yours."

It seems to me nobody is proving anything beyond doubt. Not with Langford quotes, anyway.

[travestyny]

So what good are quotes as history if we can produce multiple examples from the same primary, firsthand sources that contradict themselves?

Is anybody actually proving anything.

It's like Chuck Lorre's (The Big **** Theory) definition of quantive physics, "All one physicist can say is, my argument has a more inherent logic than yours."

It seems to me nobody is proving anything beyond doubt. Not with Langford quotes, anyway.

I think sometimes you need a third party to chime in.


I've already posted word from a reporter that was at the fight and rooting for the Boston fighter. He was rooting for Langford and giving him tons of praise just for getting through the fight. If Langford had knocked Johnson down, that would have surely been a part of his report. He mentioned nothing of the sort.

Check this out.

[Ivich]

So what good are quotes as history if we can produce multiple examples from the same primary, firsthand sources that contradict themselves?

Is anybody actually proving anything.

It's like Chuck Lorre's (The Big **** Theory) definition of quantive physics, "All one physicist can say is, my argument has a more inherent logic than yours."

It seems to me nobody is proving anything beyond doubt. Not with Langford quotes, anyway.

The difference being what Mendoza provided was a self serving, self promoting"quote from Langford trying to hype interest in what at the time was their upcoming rematch in Australia.
I provided ringside reports from Boston newspapers who if they had nay bias would surely have been leaning towards their own Boston boy!
After Woodman and Langford came out with this crap Johnson rebutted it and suggested his doubters consult Tad Dorgan whose piece our friend has posted .
In later years Joe Woodman gave an interview to Nat Fleischer for the Ring in which he stated,and I quote,"you caught me Nat,Sam didn't floor Johnson ,I was just trying to drum up interest in a rematch."
Now why would Woodman Langford's manager say that in print if it were not true?
We know his motive for lying he supplied it himself,but what would be his motive for coming clean and admitting it never happened?
You are entitled to believe what you wish,I'm not here to convert you or anyone else to my opinion.
I'm here to expose Mendoza as a lying hate filled POS and I've been doing it successfully for over 10 years now!
Her April 22nd Langford fought Tiger Smith in London for the Commonwealth Middlweight Title for a purse of £2000.Langford took it easy on his opponent for a couple of round s ,then,when his manager had got the best odds he could hope for Sam cut loose.In the 4th round he unleashed a barrage that prompted the referee to step in and halt the bout.
The NSC audience were favourably impressed with Sam and raised three cheers for him,calling him,
"the real heavyweight champion".Langford cut short their cheers saying.
"Say Boss ,that's not me.
There's a big smoke back home called Jack Johnson who is unbeatable.He licked me in Massachusetts last year and is improving every month."