Archie Moore v Sam Langford At 175lbs 15rds Modern Gloves?

[Ivich]

The Old Mongoose against the monstrous hitting Langford, I avoided using his ring Nom de Guerre so as not to cause offence to anyone.Two terrific ****ers who emerges victorious?

[The Old LefHook]

There is a tiny bit of Langford film. It appears Sam may have had the speed Moore was missing, at least in the available film of Arch.

Some people on here would say Moore would surely win, since he came forty yeas later when boxing had ADVANCED.

With contemporary gloves I guess you are choosing gloves neither man has worn. Sam will probably be the duck out of water on that point. But maybe it depends on sparring gloves of the time. Sam may have been used to having weights on his hands. I feel it matters whether Sam has been in larger gloves before. I believe contemporary gloves render open-hand parries mostly antiquated, for instance.

Here is one more question. Do they come straight out of a time capsule, or are they given time to spar and acclimate to the equipment?

[Ivich]

There is a tiny bit of Langford film. It appears Sam may have had the speed Moore was missing, at least in the available film of Arch.

Some people on here would say Moore would surely win, since he came forty yeas later when boxing had ADVANCED.

With contemporary gloves I guess you are choosing gloves neither man has worn. Sam will probably be the duck out of water on that point. But maybe it depends on sparring gloves of the time. Sam may have been used to having weights on his hands. I feel it matters whether Sam has been in larger gloves before. I believe contemporary gloves render open-hand parries mostly antiquated, for instance.

Here is one more question. Do they come straight out of a time capsule, or are they given time to spar and acclimate to the equipment?

There is film of Langford against Jeannette,Flynn, and Lang,
The middle weight version of Moore for example, the guy that fought Ron Richards wasn't slow, and he certainly was more mobile than the oldster that was pretty stationary in front of Marciano. If Moore has any advantage here it would be in his ability to slip/parry the jab. Sam was always vulnerable to this punch.I'd not be surprised if Langford ko'd Moore.I feel Langford was the harder puncher and had the better chin.I'd give him a real shot against Marciano.
To make it simple both can have a period of acclimatisation
.On gloves Langford's white gloves against Lang were doctored by the promoter,who removed the horsehair at the knuckles and replaced it with rabbit fur.Langford said he was puzzled why Lang took some of his punches without going down so he examined the gloves after the fight and discovered the tampering.

[Willie Pep 229]

There is film of Langford against Jeannette,Flynn, and Lang,
The middle weight version of Moore for example, the guy that fought Ron Richards wasn't slow, and he certainly was more mobile than the oldster that was pretty stationary in front of Marciano. If Moore has any advantage here it would be in his ability to slip/parry the jab. Sam was always vulnerable to this punch.I'd not be surprised if Langford ko'd Moore.I feel Langford was the harder puncher and had the better chin.I'd give him a real shot against Marciano.
To make it simple both can have a period of acclimatisation
.On gloves Langford's white gloves against Lang were doctored by the promoter,who removed the horsehair at the knuckles and replaced it with rabbit fur.Langford said he was puzzled why Lang took some of his punches without going down so he examined the gloves after the fight and discovered the tampering.

I find it so difficult to believe all these old timers stories.

That the promoter replaced the horse hair with rabbit fur just makes me shake my head.

Fighters can be very creative when looking for an excuse.

So we should conclude that the scam played as such: the promoter doctored the gloves with rabbit fur, Langford fought unaware that the gloves were wrong (wrong enough for him to notice his punches were ineffective, let alone that they couldn't have felt right on his very experienced fist.) But then the promoter allowed Langford (a negro fighter) to keep the gloves after the fight so he could give them a close examination.

How about I make up my own history?

Langford complained to his people the gloves didn't feel right during the fight, and was at end disappointed in his performance. One if his seconds/entourage/sycophants had once heard a story about 'rabbit fur' doctored gloves and offered the excuse. The group decided that's what must have happened and it became a truth to Langford.

That the gloves were screwed with sure, could well be. Screwing black fighters was part of the White controlled game. But that Langford actually knew what happened needs outside support.

Just me making up history.

But we are knee deep the prize fight stories about doctored gloves, and many are probably true. But you can't take any of them seriously unless there is some other (outside) collaboration.

Livingstone Bramble, during his good years, once excused away his inability to KO his opponent by claiming the leather of the glove came from the soft belly of the cow and made the gloves too soft.

[Ivich]

I find it so difficult to believe all these old timers stories.

That the promoter replaced the horse hair with rabbit fur just makes me shake my head.

Fighters can be very creative when looking for an excuse.

So we should conclude that the scam played as such: the promoter doctored the gloves with rabbit fur, Langford fought unaware that the gloves were wrong (wrong enough for him to notice his punches were ineffective, let alone that they couldn't have felt right on his very experienced fist.) But then the promoter allowed Langford (a negro fighter) to keep the gloves after the fight so he could give them a close examination.

How about I make up my own history?

Langford complained to his people the gloves didn't feel right during the fight, and was at end disappointed in his performance. One if his seconds/entourage/sycophants had once heard a story about 'rabbit fur' doctored gloves and offered the excuse. The group decided that's what must have happened and it became a truth to Langford.

That the gloves were screwed with sure, could well be. Screwing black fighters was part of the White controlled game. But that Langford actually knew what happened needs outside support.

Just me making up history.

But we are knee deep the prize fight stories about doctored gloves, and many are probably true. But you can't take any of them seriously unless there is some other (outside) collaboration.

Livingstone Bramble, during his good years, once excused away his inability to KO his opponent by claiming the leather of the glove came from the soft belly of the cow and made the gloves too soft.

Yeah how about you make up your own history? You seem to have a problem with anything anyone posts or perhaps its just my content ? At any rate make up your own and this Forum will be redundant, its almost there anyway!All anyone will need to do is PM you for the real lowdown on things,and then they can cut out the middle man,the Forum.
It sure ain't gonna bother me ,I've made my last thread here.

[Willie Pep 229]

Yeah how about you make up your own history? You seem to have a problem with anything anyone posts or perhaps its just my content ? At any rate make up your own and this Forum will be redundant, its almost there anyway!All anyone will need to do is PM you for the real lowdown on things,and then they can cut out the middle man,the Forum.
It sure ain't gonna bother me ,I've made my last thread here.

Jesus no - I'm just throwing in an opinion for fun. My thing is the failure of historical research, or historiography.

These posts are not a personal challenge to your opinions. Just an examination, for fun, of the historical information.

You complain that you start threads amd there is no interest and no debate. But then when I disagree with a source or reinterpret the history you take it as personal afront.

[Ivich]

Jesus no - I'm just throwing in an opinion for fun. My thing is the failure of historical research, or historiography.

These posts are not a personal challenge to your opinions. Just an examination, for fun, of the historical information.

You complain that you start threads amd there is no interest and no debate. But then when I disagree with a source or reinterpret the history you take it as personal afront.

They aren't my opinions, the rabbits fur story comes from neither me or Langford it comes from the book
The Great White Hopes,Langford needed no excuse in this fight he beat Lang up.Ive watched it!
I'm not here to convert anyone to my opinions I rarely give them I usually just post articles nobodies under any obligation to accept them whether they do or not is no matter to me.

[Willie Pep 229]

They aren't my opinions, the rabbits fur story comes from neither me or Langford it comes from the book
The Great White Hopes,Langford needed no excuse in this fight he beat Lang up.Ive watched it!
I'm not here to convert anyone to my opinions I rarely give them I usually just post articles nobodies under any obligation to accept them whether they do or not is no matter to me.

Right that's cool so why can't I throw in my two cents without you getting angry at me?

[Ivich]

Right that's cool so why can't I throw in my two cents without you getting angry at me?

You can throw in your entire fortune.

[Willie Pep 229]

You can throw in your entire fortune.

OK I will, try not to get too pissed at me.