Your Top 5 At Middleweight?

[Ivich]

Who are your top 5 at160lbs?
I'll go
Greb
Robinson
Monzon
Hagler
Ketchel

[QueensburyRules]

- - No middle dominated his era like Golovkin did.

U can put the blame on run and stink Americans, and while I'd give all your guys a fair chance to upset him save Ketchel, there's also a chance they'd be like the others just looking to survive after eating a few punches.

[Willie Pep 229]

Greb
Walker
Monzon
Hagler
Fullmer

[Willie Pep 229]

I don't see why SRR gets ranked over Gene Fullmer at MW since they went head to head four times with Fullmer coming out 2-1-1.

SRR's only win comes from a one punch save in a fight he was losing on the score cards.

Normally SRR is unimpeachable because of his resume - but we have four H2H fights at MW that suggest Fullmer had Robinson's number.

In sum of four fights Fullmer won more rounds; more fights.

Why is SRR one of the five great MWs and not Fullmer?

[Ivich]

I don't see why SRR gets ranked over Gene Fullmer at MW since they went head to head four times with Fullmer coming out 2-1-1.

SRR's only win comes from a one punch save in a fight he was losing on the score cards.

Normally SRR is unimpeachable because of his resume - but we have four H2H fights at MW that suggest Fullmer had Robinson's number.

In sum of four fights Fullmer won more rounds; more fights.

Why is SRR one of the five great MWs and not Fullmer?

Because Ray beat
Lamotta x4
Wade
Turpin
Graziano
Delannoit
Castellani
Basora
Villemain x2
Olson x3
Moyer
Levine
Basilio
Abrams

And Fullmer beat
Pender
Basilio
Castellani
Webb x2
Paret
Vejar
Fernandez
Tiger

And Ray was
35 , 2 days off 36 ,and 39 x2 years old when he fought Fullmer.
Fullmer would not make my top15 ,but each to their own.

[Rockybigblower]

GGG
Arthur Abraham
Daniel Geale
Bernard Hopkins
Kelly Pavlik

[Willie Pep 229]

Because Ray beat
Lamotta x4
Wade
Turpin
Graziano
Delannoit
Castellani
Basora
Villemain x2
Olson x3
Moyer
Levine
Basilio
Abrams

And Fullmer beat
Pender
Basilio
Castellani
Webb x2
Paret
Vejar
Fernandez
Tiger

And Ray was
35 , 2 days off 36 ,and 39 x2 years old when he fought Fullmer.
Fullmer would not make my top15 ,but each to their own.

All fair - but does resume trump h2h when h2h is actually avaiable? (Which of course is often not available.)

As you say, to each his own. I'm not good at lists anyway.

[DeeMoney]

I don't see why SRR gets ranked over Gene Fullmer at MW since they went head to head four times with Fullmer coming out 2-1-1.

SRR's only win comes from a one punch save in a fight he was losing on the score cards.

Normally SRR is unimpeachable because of his resume - but we have four H2H fights at MW that suggest Fullmer had Robinson's number.

In sum of four fights Fullmer won more rounds; more fights.

Why is SRR one of the five great MWs and not Fullmer?

Gotta take age into account. Fullmer was in his absolute prime for those fights, Robinson was old. In fact none of the other Big 4 MWs were still fighting by the time they were the age Robinson was for any of the Fullmer fights. For the most part, people don't hold late career losses against a fighter when evaluating them; save for specific type of discussions (ie who was the greatest fighter post 40?)

[Willie Pep 229]

Gotta take age into account. Fullmer was in his absolute prime for those fights, Robinson was old. In fact none of the other Big 4 MWs were still fighting by the time they were the age Robinson was for any of the Fullmer fights. For the most part, people don't hold late career losses against a fighter when evaluating them; save for specific type of discussions (ie who was the greatest fighter post 40?)

Yes, I agree. I recognize your point.

Not sure if this mitigates my point but . . . the topic at hand is 'great MWs' - SRR is 'old' for a good portion of the time he is a MW (including that premature retirement). His tenure at MW is filled with loses (and great comebacks) to various fighters, not just Fullmer.

Ar some level, if we judge SRR at MW, we are judging the "old" period of his career. Does that part of his career place him in the top MW five?

P.S. Hell who wants to argue against SRR? That's tough.

[mrbig1]

GGG
Arthur Abraham
Daniel Geale
Bernard Hopkins
Kelly Pavlik

Now that's funny.