Your Top Ten Light Heavies?

[Marchegiano]

- - Not much into limited, 2 dimensional linear 123456 lists these days, but boxrec is the most impartial judge of rankings no matter how flawed their algorithm.

I would personally have Michael Spinks #1, but here tis where you can eliminate non champions like Ez, ect...

1	Archie Moore	1337	186 23 10	1935-1963		orthodox	San Diego, USA
2	Roy Jones Jr	1186	66 9 0	1989-2018		orthodox	Pensacola, USA
3	Ezzard Charles	1132	95 25 1	1940-1959		orthodox	Cincinnati, USA
4	Harold Johnson	1077	76 11 0	1946-1971		orthodox	Manayunk, USA
5	Tommy Loughran	940.8	124 33 12	1919-1937		orthodox	Philadelphia, USA
6	Jimmy Bivins	863.4	86 25 1	1940-1955		orthodox	Cleveland, USA
7	Joey Maxim	838.9	83 29 4	1941-1958		orthodox	Cleveland, USA
8	Michael Spinks	836.4	31 1 0	1977-1988		orthodox	Saint Louis, USA
9	Virgil Hill	826.1	51 7 0	1984-2015		orthodox	Williston, USA
10	Billy Conn	817.0	63 11 1	1934-1948		orthodox	Pittsburgh, USA
11	Oakland Billy Smith	755.1	58 24 4	1941-1955		orthodox	Atlantic City, USA
12	Tommy Gibbons	741.1	96 5 4	1911-1925		orthodox	Saint Paul, USA
13	Dariusz Michalczewski	735.6	48 2 0	1991-2005		orthodox	Gdansk, Poland
14	Jack Delaney	618.6	74 11 2	1919-1932		orthodox	Bridgeport, USA
15	Victor Galindez

If I make a program would you respect it too or since you know me and know I'm a dumbass would you know my dumbass program is also dumb?

Serious question, just asking in a form I thought you'd like. I really can write the program, piece of piss.

[Ivich]

I find it interesting you wanted to limit this to champions and so no Charles or Tunney who are very popular choices for the single greatest LHW of all time but don't see any issue with using those names to discredit other men's resumes.

Anyway, I favored titles and defenses over resume, simple as.

Saad beat who? for what?

Delaney defended what when?

Dillon...I am quite sure if Foster got to fight guys like Tim O'Neil and Charley Weinert and such he'd have 20+ defenses under his belt.

Who props up Conn if not Lesnevich? That's a lot of respect to give a guy with a one name resume.

Johnson's a guy who struggled every single time he faced talent isn't he? Scholz being his single undisputed defense color me unimpressed.

I limited it to champions to avoid the problem of trying to evaluate the likes of Langford,Tunney,Charles at 175lbs.Giving my thoughts on others top ten was just trying to stimulate debate.Nothing personal was intended,you can rip my list as much as you want.

[Marchegiano]

I limited it to champions to avoid the problem of trying to evaluate the likes of Langford,Tunney,Charles at 175lbs.Giving my thoughts on others top ten was just trying to stimulate debate.Nothing personal was intended,you can rip my list as much as you want.

No man you're good. I got you was after debate. I'm pretty weak at LHW, I was offering debate. I'm not even a little upset with you or taking this personally. Just so you get me clearly, I'm here to learn as much as I can. So even if I give it to you hard, which I honestly did not mean to do here, but when I do that is because I think it benefits the convo in some way and I am after what you know and what your opinions on what you know mostly.


<--- Not a Tunney fan


Dude gets a lot of credit for beating up a MW and HW.


Norfolk, Langford, Panama, McKoy, Ryan, Kid Matthews, and Barbados are all guys I like quite a bit who mixed with LHWs but Tunney....TF did Tunney do? Beat up Battling after Battling was like 500 fights deep? Exaggeration, sure, but not by that damn much. When your best wins are paper wins and old veterans with over 100 fights under them I'm not that impressed.

Loads love Tunney. I ain't one. And if he was prime Dempsey would have hurt that fool.



Spinks, Charles, Moore, and RJJ are legitimately some of my favorites and I favor every one of them to ice Gene

[Ivich]

I find it interesting you wanted to limit this to champions and so no Charles or Tunney who are very popular choices for the single greatest LHW of all time but don't see any issue with using those names to discredit other men's resumes.

Anyway, I favored titles and defenses over resume, simple as.

Saad beat who? for what?

Delaney defended what when?

Dillon...I am quite sure if Foster got to fight guys like Tim O'Neil and Charley Weinert and such he'd have 20+ defenses under his belt.

Who props up Conn if not Lesnevich? That's a lot of respect to give a guy with a one name resume.

Johnson's a guy who struggled every single time he faced talent isn't he? Scholz being his single undisputed defense color me unimpressed.

Saad beat
Martin
Conteh x2
Sutherland
Johnson
Mwale
Lopez x2
Pergaurd
Kates
Camel
Parlov
3 175lbs champs

Delaney beat
Loughran
Berlenbach
McTigue
Rosenbloom
4 175lbs champs

Dillon beat
Weinert
Levinsky x2


Conn beat
Lesnevich
Bettina x2
Two 175lbs champs
Do you think Conn should not be in a top ten at175lbs?




Charley Weinert was considered a fine boxer,a guy good enough to beat
Levinsky
Madden
Flynn
Smith

Johnson beat
Stengel
Hank
Jones
Bowdry
Slade
Moore
Lytell
Bivins

Enjoying the back and forth.

[Marchegiano]

Saad beat
Martin
Conteh x2
Sutherland
Johnson
Mwale
Lopez x2
Pergaurd
Kates
Camel
Parlov
3 175lbs champs

Delaney beat
Loughran
Berlenbach
McTigue
Rosenbloom
4 175lbs champs

Dillon beat
Weinert
Levinsky x2


Conn beat
Lesnevich
Bettina x2
Two 175lbs champs
Do you think Conn should not be in a top ten at175lbs?

I am indeed most underwhelmed by Conn and Dillon here. I'd place Maxim or Fitzs on my list before either of those guys.

Saad has a lot of names, but, be honest, that's a list of wins not a resume. Most those names are not worth the time it took you to type them. I'll give him this, it looks like when he fought some of those guys they looked better than they panned out. Like Parlov, 12-0 when they fought, 12-0 vs 12-0 is a fine fight. It's too bad Parlov never did anything but fight low rankers or lose. I could rate him in my bottom 7-10 easy enough but

Jimmy Delaney is proper, I'd be willing to drop any of my 7-10 for him but would be hard for me to top 5 him.


That said, you said champions. Single strap holders, imo are not champions. Mustafa is Saad's dispute and Mustafa beat Saad h2h....I wouldn't call Saad best of the claimants let alone champion.

[Ivich]

I am indeed most underwhelmed by Conn and Dillon here. I'd place Maxim or Fitzs on my list before either of those guys.

Saad has a lot of names, but, be honest, that's a list of wins not a resume. Most those names are not worth the time it took you to type them. I'll give him this, it looks like when he fought some of those guys they looked better than they panned out. Like Parlov, 12-0 when they fought, 12-0 vs 12-0 is a fine fight. It's too bad Parlov never did anything but fight low rankers or lose. I could rate him in my bottom 7-10 easy enough but

Jimmy Delaney is proper, I'd be willing to drop any of my 7-10 for him but would be hard for me to top 5 him.


That said, you said champions. Single strap holders, imo are not champions. Mustafa is Saad's dispute and Mustafa beat Saad h2h....I wouldn't call Saad best of the claimants let alone champion.

What is a resume if not a list of wins?
Champions are belt holders,I never stipulated undisputed. I think Conn would clown Maxim ,and there are very few light heavies Id pick to beat Billy. Fitz hasn't the body of work at175lbs to justify placing him imo , though he may well have been a night mare for any light heavy.
I'm referring to Jack Bright Eyes Delaney.
Parlov beat Conteh,although he had the assistance of plastic skin on his eye brows.

[QueensburyRules]

What happened was I was on BoxRec checking everything out when they cut me off after about 25 clicks.

- - Dunno, ask them.

[Willow The Wisp]

It's all good dialog. I appreciate my fellow posters. Some impressive researchers assembled here.
I'm confused by the lack of support for Jack the Giant Killer Dillon. For years one of my favorites, held in very very very high esteem by his contemporary observers and the most astute historians who mentored and influenced me.
Up through the early 1970's, there were as many top historians who picked Jack Dillon as the best Light-Heavyweight ever as there were those who didn't. It's true.
Is it the ND era that has us vexed? I view this group as being way beyond that. I am adrift. We know what to do with the "BoxRec press scoring call" when an Indiana fellow is fighting in Buffalo, Butte, Rochester & New Orleans, right? Going back to those who actually knew for sure and knew a thing or two, we are compelled to acquiesce. Teddy Hayes, on the super short list of greatest boxing minds who ever lived, knew everything there was to know about Boxing and about Jack Dillon. Having trained more than twenty world champs from Joe Gans to Jack Dempsey to Mickey Walker, he considered Dillon to be the greatest fighter he ever saw. In terms of career opposition quality is concerned, Jack Twin Sullivan, Hugo Kelly, Al McCoy, Gus Christie, Leo Houk, Eddie McGootry, George Chip, Ray Bronson, Mike Glover, **** Fitzpatrick, Frank Klaus, Harry Krohn, Sammy Trott, Jimmy Gardner, Frank Mantell, Battling Levinsky,
Bob Moha, Mike Gibbons, Harry Greb, Joe Thomas, Jack Lester, Jimmy Howard, Young Ahern, Marty Cutler, Buck Cruose, Jack Denning, Bob York, etc., represents a collection that goes up against ANY pro fighter's in history, and the Hoosier Bearcat beat most of them.
Yes its true that Dillon spent allot of his time at Middleweight, but he also fought top ten Heavyweights Ed Gunboat Smith, Al Norton, Porky Flynn, Fireman Jim Flynn, Frank Moran, Billy Miske, Charley Weinert, Jim Savage, Bob Devere, Tom Cowler, Ed Bearcat McMahon, and he beat most of them too.
Take it or leave it. I don't argue much.

[The Old LefHook]

I was checking out the competition of Chuck Wiggins when BoxRec cut me off. They want you to register if you use the site extensively. Wiggins fought Greb 9 times and Tunney twice, just to get the Wiggins wagon rolling.

[The Old LefHook]

Wiggins also fought Tommy Gibbons 3 times and Mike Gibbons once, beating each brother once.