Different Strokes for Different Folks: Comparing the footwork of Liston versus the footwork of Louis.

[billeau2]

From what I can see... and believe me I don't claim to be some all seeing eye, lol... you have two great fighters (Louis and Liston) one who set the template for punching form, the other who would be on a short list (at prime) to have a chance to defeat any other heavyweight in history... both men had deceptive footwork. Both men IMO needed to have great footwork to achieve what they did. Liston had to have a way to finish opponents considering he was, to many, the best finisher in the division historically... and Louis had to have supreme confidence to know that he would catch his man during a 15 round championship bout.

Louis IMO was a ring cutter. Slow, methodical, but never chasing his opponent... Louis was always a step away (angle wise) from being able to attack. His approach depended on knowing the angles, and distance...and being in position at all times.

Liston was a two step guy. The simplest step, yet when done well, one of the most effective. Two step in dancing means always staying with your partner. Liston could alter the step and make it one and a half, etc but the beat was always a "one, two." Liston was able to be in front of his opponent without chasing him. Because he was so fluid in moving Liston like Louis, did not depend on trying to move rapidly. It was positioning and beat... stay with your opponent like a dance partner!

Both men were excellent finishers, had impeccable skill in understanding distance, and were methodical with their stalking... Two different methods.

Thoughts?

[JAB5239]

From what I can see... and believe me I don't claim to be some all seeing eye, lol... you have two great fighters (Louis and Liston) one who set the template for punching form, the other who would be on a short list (at prime) to have a chance to defeat any other heavyweight in history... both men had deceptive footwork. Both men IMO needed to have great footwork to achieve what they did. Liston had to have a way to finish opponents considering he was, to many, the best finisher in the division historically... and Louis had to have supreme confidence to know that he would catch his man during a 15 round championship bout.

Louis IMO was a ring cutter. Slow, methodical, but never chasing his opponent... Louis was always a step away (angle wise) from being able to attack. His approach depended on knowing the angles, and distance...and being in position at all times.

Liston was a two step guy. The simplest step, yet when done well, one of the most effective. Two step in dancing means always staying with your partner. Liston could alter the step and make it one and a half, etc but the beat was always a "one, two." Liston was able to be in front of his opponent without chasing him. Because he was so fluid in moving Liston like Louis, did not depend on trying to move rapidly. It was positioning and beat... stay with your opponent like a dance partner!

Both men were excellent finishers, had impeccable skill in understanding distance, and were methodical with their stalking... Two different methods.

Thoughts?

I would point out as well that in order to go 15 rounds and still be able to punch as hard in the 15th as in the 1st that this style was most beneficial. They did not expend useless energy and instead applied controlled pressure.

[them_apples]

From what I can see... and believe me I don't claim to be some all seeing eye, lol... you have two great fighters (Louis and Liston) one who set the template for punching form, the other who would be on a short list (at prime) to have a chance to defeat any other heavyweight in history... both men had deceptive footwork. Both men IMO needed to have great footwork to achieve what they did. Liston had to have a way to finish opponents considering he was, to many, the best finisher in the division historically... and Louis had to have supreme confidence to know that he would catch his man during a 15 round championship bout.

Louis IMO was a ring cutter. Slow, methodical, but never chasing his opponent... Louis was always a step away (angle wise) from being able to attack. His approach depended on knowing the angles, and distance...and being in position at all times.

Liston was a two step guy. The simplest step, yet when done well, one of the most effective. Two step in dancing means always staying with your partner. Liston could alter the step and make it one and a half, etc but the beat was always a "one, two." Liston was able to be in front of his opponent without chasing him. Because he was so fluid in moving Liston like Louis, did not depend on trying to move rapidly. It was positioning and beat... stay with your opponent like a dance partner!

Both men were excellent finishers, had impeccable skill in understanding distance, and were methodical with their stalking... Two different methods.

Thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVgnfPsYfz4

pretty good video of shavers explaining this classic footwork style. same method Foreman used to cut the ring off vs ali, who claimed he was taking 3 steps for 1 of Georges, and forced to lie on the ropes.

[markusmod]

I would point out as well that in order to go 15 rounds and still be able to punch as hard in the 15th as in the 1st that this style was most beneficial. They did not expend useless energy and instead applied controlled pressure.

Jab makes a good point.

[billeau2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVgnfPsYfz4

pretty good video of shavers explaining this classic footwork style. same method Foreman used to cut the ring off vs ali, who claimed he was taking 3 steps for 1 of Georges, and forced to lie on the ropes.

I enjoyed this! Lloks like he may still be around... Whoa to the guy who says "awww the Acorn how cute!" In any other era this guy would have inched through and grabbed a belt or four.

[Ivich]

From what I can see... and believe me I don't claim to be some all seeing eye, lol... Liston had to have a way to finish opponents considering he was, to many, the best finisher in the division historically... and Louis had to have suyou have two great fighters (Louis and Liston) one who set the template for punching form, the other who would be on a short list (at prime) to have a chance to defeat any other heavyweight in history... both men had deceptive footwork. Both men IMO needed to have great footwork to achieve what they did.preme confidence to know that he would catch his man during a 15 round championship bout.

Louis IMO was a ring cutter. Slow, methodical, but never chasing his opponent... Louis was always a step away (angle wise) from being able to attack. His approach depended on knowing the angles, and distance...and being in position at all times.

Liston was a two step guy. The simplest step, yet when done well, one of the most effective. Two step in dancing means always staying with your partner. Liston could alter the step and make it one and a half, etc but the beat was always a "one, two." Liston was able to be in front of his opponent without chasing him. Because he was so fluid in moving Liston like Louis, did not depend on trying to move rapidly. It was positioning and beat... stay with your opponent like a dance partner!

Both men were excellent finishers, had impeccable skill in understanding distance, and were methodical with their stalking... Two different methods.

Thoughts?

Liston did not have great foot work,he never learned to cut off the ring,he followed his opponent around without employing lateral movement,his footwork is regularly contrasted negatively with his protege Foreman who had excellent lateral movement and understood the geometry of the ring. Archie Moore can be found on you tube remarking on how Sonny followed you around and never learned to cut you off.

[billeau2]

Liston did not have great foot work,he never learned to cut off the ring,he followed his opponent around without employing lateral movement,his footwork is regularly contrasted negatively with his protege Foreman who had excellent lateral movement and understood the geometry of the ring. Archie Moore can be found on you tube remarking on how Sonny followed you around and never learned to cut you off.

Again: Not true... It is true Liston did not cut the ring, yet was perhaps the best finisher ever to some... that should tell you something. Yes, Foreman did cut the ring. Sonny usd a different method. His rhythm, the way he was able to stay in range without chasing the opponent. Liston used a basic step but did it imeccably.

Its actually a skill to step, set and punch... most people will be able to punch eventually, then maybe step, but not set enough to deliver power... Liston was able to step, set and hit you while he was grounded. Thats an amazing technical feat.

I mean no disrespect when I way "try it sometime." You will see that moving, getting grounded in an instant and catching target at end of punch is an extraordinary feat.

[QueensburyRules]

Again: Not true... It is true Liston did not cut the ring, yet was perhaps the best finisher ever to some... that should tell you something. Yes, Foreman did cut the ring. Sonny usd a different method. His rhythm, the way he was able to stay in range without chasing the opponent. Liston used a basic step but did it imeccably.

Its actually a skill to step, set and punch... most people will be able to punch eventually, then maybe step, but not set enough to deliver power... Liston was able to step, set and hit you while he was grounded. Thats an amazing technical feat.

I mean no disrespect when I way "try it sometime." You will see that moving, getting grounded in an instant and catching target at end of punch is an extraordinary feat.

- - Used to do it all the time on my heavybag with both hands while going forward, reverse, and side to side as I knocked that bag all over the backyard using every punch in the book, at my peak, bareknuckles callused from the canvas bag. My punch count was such that a Korean War vet visiting my next door neighbor in his garage office rushed out distraught thinking someone was firing a machine gun.

Now, doing that to an opponent who is in turn timing you is a whole 'nother thing, but then again, ya shoulda heard the 2 blocks worth of dogs in every direct going off like a canine chorus for 45 min everyday but never on Sunday.

[Ivich]

Again: Not true... It is true Liston did not cut the ring, yet was perhaps the best finisher ever to some... that should tell you something. Yes, Foreman did cut the ring. Sonny usd a different method. His rhythm, the way he was able to stay in range without chasing the opponent. Liston used a basic step but did it imeccably.

Its actually a skill to step, set and punch... most people will be able to punch eventually, then maybe step, but not set enough to deliver power... Liston was able to step, set and hit you while he was grounded. Thats an amazing technical feat.

I mean no disrespect when I way "try it sometime." You will see that moving, getting grounded in an instant and catching target at end of punch is an extraordinary feat.

Liston's kryptonite was boxers with good footwork.Marshal ,Whitehurst,Machen ,and Ali.
Though not as slow as it became in his later years Sonny did not have great footwork it was adequate ,but never great.

[billeau2]

Liston's kryptonite was boxers with good footwork.Marshal ,Whitehurst,Machen ,and Ali.
Though not as slow as it became in his later years Sonny did not have great footwork it was adequate ,but never great.

That is a fair opinion. I disagree. I think his footwork was deceptively good... Just simple. And the Liston that fought Ali was past experation... Nothing against the greatness of Ali. But it is true he did not cut the ring... thing is, as great a finisher as he was, one has to think: He obviously had a way to get to his man.