In his prime how good do you feel Joe Frazier was?

[Bushidō]

great fighter, just wondering why he lose against foreman

Foreman is not that type of fighter you should move forward against. Usually Frazier could just bob and weeve his way in but Foreman could step back and only needed to barely touch you to hurt you. Frazier wasn't able to avoid Foremans blows. Foreman would beat him every time

[Bushidō]

What wars had Ali been in?

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.

I don't think anyone willingly takes punches like that

[JAB5239]

What wars had Ali been in?

Gee, I don't know. Frazier 3x, Foreman, Norton 3x, Shavers gave a decent account and landed bombs.

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.

Still playing the idiot I see. Giving and taking large amounts of punishment is going to war. There is no denying ali had been in wars.

How on earth you can claim Frazier ever came close to taking on almost every top contender of his era is laughable.

Do I really have to go thru his resume again? Almost every fighter in history has fights that were not made for one reason or another. Thjis doesn't mean they were avoiding or ducking them. You will never understand that because you don't want to.

Frazier in his prime was fighting just twice a year,A real great fighter(especially in the era of which he fought) doesn't limit their schedule like that,And it's not like he was fighting the two best heavyweights each year either.

I'll tell you what, why don't you list all the heavyweight from 1966 to 1974 who's resumes blow Fraziers out of the water and we'll take this part of the argument from there.

Yes,Ron Lyle was never at any point a relevant factor,Not when he was the hottest thing in the division in 1972 nor in 1975 when he was challenging for a world title.

Frazier wasn't champ in 75 and Lyle still green and never in a mandatory position in 72. END OF STORY.

I also suggest you wipe the **** out of your eyes and actually read my posts rather than twist them to fit your own agenda.

What ever I have in my eyes is a by-product from reading your posts. You're the only one with an agenda here, and everyone can see it.

I already stated(for the 100th time) foster wasn't in line for a title shot after being defeated by both Quarry and Ali,Yet you continually bring it up.

Oviously foster would have gotten a shot had beaten Quarry,Just like Ali recieved a rematch and a title shot when he beat Quarry.

Yet you continually say Frazier avoided, hence ducked Foster. Lol, talk about agenda's!

[RightCross94]

Apparently since you have so many fights then I suggest you actually start watching them,because only a person who looks up the result on the internet and who hasn't watched Ali-Spinks 1 could look at the decision and honestly believe it was close enough for one judge to actually score the fight for Ali.


The fight wasn't remotely close,Ali at best won five rounds,He recieved the greatest whoopin of his career until he fought Larry Holmes.

Don't ever list Ron Stander as a legitimate win for a world champion either.








What wars had Ali been in?

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.


How on earth you can claim Frazier ever came close to taking on almost every top contender of his era is laughable.

Frazier in his prime was fighting just twice a year,A real great fighter(especially in the era of which he fought) doesn't limit their schedule like that,And it's not like he was fighting the two best heavyweights each year either.


Yes,Ron Lyle was never at any point a relevant factor,Not when he was the hottest thing in the division in 1972 nor in 1975 when he was challenging for a world title.

I also suggest you wipe the **** out of your eyes and actually read my posts rather than twist them to fit your own agenda.


I already stated(for the 100th time) foster wasn't in line for a title shot after being defeated by both Quarry and Ali,Yet you continually bring it up.

Oviously foster would have gotten a shot had beaten Quarry,Just like Ali recieved a rematch and a title shot when he beat Quarry.

Go away. This section used to be a lot better before you came in with all your **** agendas and tired, boring, repetitive arguments. Can everyone in here please put him on ignore?

[sonnyboyx2]

Apparently since you have so many fights then I suggest you actually start watching them,because only a person who looks up the result on the internet and who hasn't watched Ali-Spinks 1 could look at the decision and honestly believe it was close enough for one judge to actually score the fight for Ali.


The fight wasn't remotely close,Ali at best won five rounds,He recieved the greatest whoopin of his career until he fought Larry Holmes.

Don't ever list Ron Stander as a legitimate win for a world champion either.








What wars had Ali been in?

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.


How on earth you can claim Frazier ever came close to taking on almost every top contender of his era is laughable.

Frazier in his prime was fighting just twice a year,A real great fighter(especially in the era of which he fought) doesn't limit their schedule like that,And it's not like he was fighting the two best heavyweights each year either.


Yes,Ron Lyle was never at any point a relevant factor,Not when he was the hottest thing in the division in 1972 nor in 1975 when he was challenging for a world title.

I also suggest you wipe the **** out of your eyes and actually read my posts rather than twist them to fit your own agenda.


I already stated(for the 100th time) foster wasn't in line for a title shot after being defeated by both Quarry and Ali,Yet you continually bring it up.

Oviously foster would have gotten a shot had beaten Quarry,Just like Ali recieved a rematch and a title shot when he beat Quarry.

The worst beating Muhammad Ali took in his career was from Joe Frazier March 8th 1971..

it is quite obvious to me that you have never seen the title fight Frazier vs Stander... Big Ron put up one hell of a performance and was brutally beaten to a pulp by the champion...Stander was a real tough cookie who was 23-1 coming into the fight with victories over Thad Spencer, Earnie Shavers and Jack O`Halloran.

Ron Lyle was never a contender when Joe Frazier was champion (67-72)..Lyle was being touted as the next Sonny Liston unto he was derailed by Jerry Quarry, Frazier v Quarry (1) was `Fight of the year` and a forgotten classic.

anyone trying to diminish the career of Smokin`Joe Frazier is deluding themselves... as for a Mac Foster v Frazier fight it would have been an early blow-out for Frazier

[BigMacFoster]

The worst beating Muhammad Ali took in his career was from Joe Frazier March 8th 1971.

Never seen Ali-Spinks 1,Ali-Shavers and Ali-Holmes,Obviously.

it is quite obvious to me that you have never seen the title fight Frazier vs Stander... Big Ron put up one hell of a performance and was brutally beaten to a pulp by the champion...Stander was a real tough cookie who was 23-1 coming into the fight with victories over Thad Spencer, Earnie Shavers and Jack O`Halloran.

Stander was a chump,Spencer was a hot prospect in the mid 1960's,favoured to win the heavyweight tournament to crown a new champion and he came up short and faded into obscurity,Shavers was hot and cold throughout his entire career but was nothing when he fought Stander.

It was a mismatch,An easy payday.

Ron Lyle was never a contender when Joe Frazier was champion (67-72)..Lyle was being touted as the next Sonny Liston unto he was derailed by Jerry Quarry, Frazier v Quarry (1) was `Fight of the year` and a forgotten classic.

I can assure you he was,And I can assure you he was a contender for a long time even when frazier had lost the title and remained a relevant contender.

anyone trying to diminish the career of Smokin`Joe Frazier is deluding themselves... as for a Mac Foster v Frazier fight it would have been an early blow-out for Frazier

Perhaps if frazier had the same confidence as you,Then perhaps he would have fought and blown out Mac foster early on rather than do the same thing to a lightheavyweight/heavyweight flop in bob foster

[StarshipTrooper]

Go away. This section used to be a lot better before you came in with all your **** agendas and tired, boring, repetitive arguments. Can everyone in here please put him on ignore?

I've had him on ignore for quite a while now. And his banned PrinceMansPoophead account. And his alt Slimey Limey. And a number of other trolls that have slinked into this section over the past few months. I refuse to play their game: That ****e needs to stay over in NSB where it belongs.

Poet

[Slimey Limey]

I've had him on ignore for quite a while now. And his banned PrinceMansPoophead account. And his alt Slimey Limey. And a number of other trolls that have slinked into this section over the past few months. I refuse to play their game: That ****e needs to stay over in NSB where it belongs.

Poet

You're the one always trolling and acting like a 12 year old who just discovered the internet you fugly fat ****. And you don't even use the ignore function since you read all the posts. I've owned you time after time again which is the reason why you can't respond anymore.

[Mugwump]

Great fighter who was unforgivably smeared an "Uncle Tom" by Ali. He NEVER deserved that.

[JAB5239]

What If: Joe Frazier vs Ron Lyle?

What happens when the unstoppable force meets the unmoveable object? Let me re-phrase that. What would have happened if Joe Frazier and Ron Lyle would have hooked up in the mid 1970s?
It is too bad that this fight was never made. It was discussed on occasions but to the best of my knowledge no serious talks ever took place. What a shame. This would have been a thrill a minute battle for the fans. Each boxer had the tools and the style to offset the others skills.

Let’s start with Ron Lyle. George Foreman showed everyone that a big, strong heavyweight with a decent jab and a solid uppercut could keep Joe from getting inside and also punish him at long range. Frazier was game to the core but Big George showed that Joe could be hurt. Lyle was no Willie Pep on his feet but he did have decent mobility for a man his size. He had a fairly quick jab with some pop to it. He threw a strong right hand but he needed room for it to gather steam. His best weapons on the inside if Frazier did get past his jab were a short left hook and a scorching uppercut. Also Ron was more then willing to stand in the trenches and swap body shots. He would have been quite a handful for Joe.
What would Frazier have to do to counter Ron’s strategy? First and foremost he would just have to be Joe Frazier at his bobbing and weaving best. At times Lyle had a tendency to paw with his jab. This could have been a crucial mistake against the relentless Frazier. Joe was very adept at timing a jab and then either slipping under it or slipping to the side of it. The end result would be the same. Joe would now have his head on the opponent’s chest and he would pummel the stomach, ribs and kidneys with savage purpose.
This is a fight that would probably see the majority of the action along the ropes. I could see Ron ****ing Joe a few times on the way in and then giving ground as Joe forces Ron back to the ropes. Lyle was a willing mixer with his back on the strands so I’m sure there would have been some explosive exchanges. Although Ron had a tremendous uppercut I can not see him landing it consistantly as Joe would have weaved away from many of them. Also if Ron dipped his right shoulder to get more leverage on the uppercut, he would leave himself more open to Joe’s numbing short left hooks to the head.
At times there would be a lot of clinching, mauling and wrestling. Especially when the two boxers were in mid-ring. Lyle was good at this and his size and strength would have given Joe trouble in these situations. Ron would attempt to stall at times but Joe would always be trying to work. Although it would not be pretty it would be enough to win Joe a few rounds just for effort and work rate.
The key for a Lyle victory would be to hurt Joe early like Foreman did. Hurt Joe and not let up. Frazier was a notorious slow starter but in most cases so was Lyle. So unless Ron timed one good one on Joe’s chin, this bout would likely become a war of attrition. The longer the fight went, the better Frazier would get. You could never count Lyle out though because he could take you out of there with one punch and again Foreman had shown that Joe was a mere mortal. Lyle had a good chin as he was belted by Jerry Quarry but stayed on his feet. Earnie Shavers, the ” Puncher Of The Century ” had Ron down but could not keep him there. Eventually it was Shavers who was brutally knocked out. Lyle gamely got off the canvas in his classic war with George Foreman but later ended up falling as much from exhaustion as he did from Foreman’s blows.
Let’s say this fight takes place in 1974 after Joe’s decision loss in his rematch with Muhammad Ali. Let’s say Frazier-Quarry II takes place because logically there was a great demand for that fight due to Quarry’s remarkable comeback. Since Lyle’s loss to Jerry in 1973 he had re-established himself as a viable contender. Frazier-Lyle in the fall of 1974 would have been a very interesting and anticipated match up. Joe showed against Jerry that he was far from washed up. Could you have imagined Frazier-Lyle as the semi main event to Foreman-Ali in Zaire?
The outcome? With all things considered and with each boxer still having the bulk of their enormous talent I see Lyle taking an early lead. He may even score a flash knockdown against Joe. Frazier’s hungry though. He feels he has the inside track for a match with the winner of Foreman-Ali. Little by little Joe works his way inside. His wrecking ball left hook is working overtime. Lyle refuses to be intimidated and he attempts to stand his ground landing his fair share of solid counters. As the rounds progress into the sixth, seventh and eighth Ron is spending more and more time with his back plastered against the ropes. The tenacity of Frazier is wearing Ron down. Still there no quit in Lyle. He is still landing enough hard shots to keep Joe honest and the fans at the edge of their seats.
Finally as the eleventh round comes along Joe breaks through hurts Lyle several times with the hook. Still the courageous Lyle refuses to fall although at one point it looked like the referee was considering stepping in. Joe tried to come out fast in the twelfth and follow up on his advantage but his attack gave way to fatigue. The final round saw both men throw desperate but almost harmless blows in a futile attempt to keep the bout from going to the scorecards. At the final bell both completely spent warriors fall in to each others arms and then go to their corners to await the judges verdict. The decision is unanimous, the winner is Smokin’ Joe Frazier.
Posted by Jim Amato on Aug 11, 2007 at 02:01 AM