Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best welterweight of all-time

Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #51
    In fact, I'm wondering if you're just completely taking the piss now. I mean, c'mon, how can you possibly pretend not to know Jose 'Mantequilla' Napoles? Not only that but you say he hasn't done **** compared to Oscar?

    Ok, a brief summary for you on how Oscar doesn't even come close to comparing to Napoles. He was absolutely one of the great, and obviously forgotten, underrated fighters of all time.

    As the GreatA said, he made thirteen defenses of his WW title, but, this was in a time when there was one main champion, only the WBC and WBA belts and all contenders fought for that main championship. Now, not only did he defend it thirteen times but he defended the undisputed ie. he held both titles, thirteen times.

    He was also already 29 when he won those titles and had fought the best the sport had to offer for 11 long years before finally getting the shot at the great champion Curtis Cokes who himself was the undisputed WW champ and made six great defenses of that title over three years, which more or less equals Oscar's title run at WW in fact.

    In those eleven years he fought some truly great fighters, among them was the great Mexican lightweight Alfredo Urbina, Carlos Hernandez, 'Baby' Vasquez, LC Morgans, Adolph Pruitt, Eugenio Espinoza, etc etc.

    He finally got his shot and beat Cokes, also beating him in the rematch both times by stoppage in the 13th. He would then go on to fight the legendary WW HOF'er Emille Griffith, winning a fifteen round UD before taking on the number one contender (who would have been a titlist in today's boxing world of ABC titles mind you) and brilliant fighter Ernie 'Indian Red' Lopez. He beat him in Lopez' only two title shots.

    He then took on Billy Backus and the fight was given to Backus after a clash of heads opened a cut on Napoles too severe to continue. Napoles then stopped him in the rematch in eight.

    After this would come a slew of great title defenses against incredible opposition. Hedgemon Lewis 51-3 x 2, Ralph Charles 39-3, Adolph Pruitt 44-10 (while the record may not seem impressive by today's standards, Pruitt was a great fighter of the day who beat many fantastic fighters and champions and was one of the top fighters for years), Roger Menetrey 49-4, Clyde Gray 40-2 ( Gray was one of Canada's brilliant fighters, beating fighters such as Marcel Cerdan Jr, Donato Paduano, but is best known for losing to a rising 15-0 Tommy Hearns when he was about thirty five or something), Horacio Saldano 50-4, Armando Muniz 39-8 and in his last fight against one of Britain's best world champs John Stracey.

    But, in between Gray and Saldano he moved up to take on the undisputed middleweight king Carlos Monzon too, in a losing effort obviously as he was about half his size.

    Nonetheless, with an eventual record of 79-7, thirteen title defenses of his undisputed WW crown, won when he was already 29 in 1969 and then finally losing to Stracey in Dec of 1975, as well as many other great wins over champions and other great fighters he was truly one of the greatest WW's to ever fight and well above Oscar.

    Oscar made a solid seven defenses, among them his best wins were against Whitaker, Chavez (albeit an old one), Quartey (his best WW win in my opinion), but his other title fights were against Rivera, Gatti, Charpentier, an old Camacho, Kamau and Carr. Some decent wins but overall nothing to compare to the above title reign of Napoles. Not only that but he lost his biggest fight against Trinidad, however controversial, and also lost to Mosley who had moved up from lightweight directly. He was also only at WW for three years. In all honesty, and I still don't know if you're taking the piss or not, he simply doesn't compare to the WW greats.
    Last edited by BennyST; 09-18-2009, 09:54 AM.

    Comment


    • #52
      You can put him on the list for all I care. But not knowing who Jose Napoles was isn't exactly a crime. We're in 2009 for crying out loud!

      I just think its SAD that if I hadnt voted for him, Oscar wouldn't get a SINGLE vote. What is the world coming to...
      Last edited by Benncollinsaad; 09-18-2009, 09:56 AM.

      Comment


      • #53
        Originally posted by Benncollinsaad View Post
        You can put him on the list for all I care. But not knowing who Jose Napoles was isn't exactly a crime. We're in 2009 for crying out loud!

        I just think its SAD that if I hadnt voted for him, Oscar wouldn't get a SINGLE vote. What is the world coming to...and kiss my ass all of you!
        Hey man, that's the whole point though! How can you possibly argue about something that you obviously know little about?

        It's like saying Ricky Hatton is the best fighter and someone argues "Well, what about Marquez, Pacquiao and Mayweather?" and you saying "Who are they? I don't even know them so they can't be any good"

        If you don't know who some of the greatest WW champs in history are how can you possible argue that Oscar was better? Man, that's just a given! Don't debate unless you at least know the subject and fighters you are debating over.

        I don't mean that in a mean way at all by the way, but it's just weird that you would argue that Oscar is better than someone who he clearly is not and that you have never even heard of, you know?

        Comment


        • #54
          Originally posted by BennyST View Post
          Hey man, that's the whole point though! How can you possibly argue about something that you obviously know little about?

          It's like saying Ricky Hatton is the best fighter and someone argues "Well, what about Marquez, Pacquiao and Mayweather?" and you saying "Who are they? I don't even know them so they can't be any good"

          If you don't know who some of the greatest WW champs in history are how can you possible argue that Oscar was better? Man, that's just a given! Don't debate unless you at least know the subject and fighters you are debating over.
          Oh...sorry teacher! Next time I'll mind my business!

          Comment


          • #55
            I mean, ****, I could argue that Curtis Cokes was as good a WW as Oscar was. He had a title reign that was very similar in that he had a three year title run with as many defenses, and he also beat some genuine legendary HOF'ers.

            Cokes beat Stan Harrington, Manuel Gonzalez, Kenny Lane, the legendary HOF'er Luis Manuel Rodriguez x 2, and his title defenses came against Jean Josselin 41-2 x 2, Francois Pavilla 33-3, Charlie Shipes 31-1, Willie Lu**** 29-2 x 2, Ramon La Cruz 88-5, and his two fights against Napoles as well as a close decision loss to Manuel Sixto Alvarez.

            Comment


            • #56
              Originally posted by Benncollinsaad View Post
              Oh...sorry teacher! Next time I'll mind my business!
              Oh jesus, a smart ass. Great. You debate across two pages with many replies about Oscar being the best and then we find out you don't even know the guys you're saying he's better than. Well done mate.

              Comment


              • #57
                Originally posted by BennyST View Post
                Oh jesus, a smart ass. Great. You debate across two pages with many replies about Oscar being the best and then we find out you don't even know the guys you're saying he's better than. Well done mate.

                Thats the Aussie spirit.

                Comment


                • #58
                  I happen to be a fan of both Whitaker AND De La Hoya. I consider De La Hoya an ATG at Welterweight (bottom half of the list but higher than Trinadad) and Whitaker number 3 ATG at Lightweight. I thought Whitaker won a solid decision over De La Hoya and Oscar in turn won a solid decision over Trinadad.

                  I have to say though that the level of hate for De La Hoya over in the NSB forum is appalling. You'd swear from reading posts over there that Oscar was than Cuevas and most of them would probably favor Pipino over him in anycase. Ridiculous.

                  Poet

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    I agree that Oscar gets some unwarranted hate. I don't underestimate his career but I believe that he, much like Roy Jones, will be rated more so for his overall career than for time spent in a single division. His accomplishments at WW don't rate up there with the very best.

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      Originally posted by TheGreatA View Post
                      I agree that Oscar gets some unwarranted hate. I don't underestimate his career but I believe that he, much like Roy Jones, will be rated more so for his overall career than for time spent in a single division. His accomplishments at WW don't rate up there with the very best.
                      Roy was pretty dominat at 175 do.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X
                      TOP