Nemeses

[QueensburyRules]

An obvious one was Ali being Foreman’s nemesis.

- - More obvious to even the oblivious is Foreman lost a very strange fight under conditions near impossible to replicate, yet winning the WAR by reducing Ali to a scampering little schoolboy, not only ducking the big $$$ rematch, but looking like doggie d00d00 vs Wepner who George had obliterated as a novice fighter.

When Big George made his comeback, poor Ali was reduced to a shaking shell of what used to be a golden champion.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - More obvious to even the oblivious is Foreman lost a very strange fight under conditions near impossible to replicate, yet winning the WAR by reducing Ali to a scampering little schoolboy, not only ducking the big $$$ rematch, but looking like doggie d00d00 vs Wepner who George had obliterated as a novice fighter.

When Big George made his comeback, poor Ali was reduced to a shaking shell of what used to be a golden champion.

Did Ali take that many shots to the head with Foreman? (Asking not challenging.) He seemed to be catching much of it on his arms and took a beating to the body.

I wonder if Ali had quit after Manilla or possibly even better after Zaire would he have lived out a better life?

Can one brutal beating alone e.g. Holmes do the damage or does it have to be a combination from Frazier I to Berbick?

They say when Ali visited a damaged SRR in the early 70s he later bemoaned to Bundini Brown that he would end up like that.

[QueensburyRules]

Did Ali take that many shots to the head with Foreman? (Asking not challenging.) He seemed to be catching much of it on his arms and took a beating to the body.

I wonder if Ali had quit after Manilla or possibly even better after Zaire would he have lived out a better life?

Can one brutal beating alone e.g. Holmes do the damage or does it have to be a combination from Frazier I to Berbick?

They say when Ali visited a damaged SRR in the early 70s he later bemoaned to Bundini Brown that he would end up like that.

- - It was the beating to the body that caused to make George a no go rematch by his braintrust of Ferdie and Herbert. The damage was permanent and accumulative from the Frazier fights. Ali never had the same power or defense. Wepner exposed him post George, what, at least 100 rabbits with no defense save him whining to the ref.

[The Old LefHook]

Pacquiao's was Marquez

It is a hairline decision, but I think they were just great arch rivals, like Robinson and Lamotta. Marquez did not win every time against Pac or dominate him.

[The Old LefHook]

Hearns has Barkley to remember.

Take away Hearns' career-end loss to Grant and what is left:

a loss to Leonard, a loss to Hagler, and two to Barkley.

Agreed on Tommy. Barkley his hobgoblin.

[The Old LefHook]

Triple G is not Canelo's nemesis.

Nemesis: the inescapable agent of someone's or something's downfall.

He doesn't have to beat GGG, just not be beaten by him. Which he hasn't been; GGG is not a nemesis, only an unanswered challenge.

Barkley was Hearns' nemesis; Norton as Ali's also works, for Norton beat him at a time when we thought only Frazier could, and then Ali won a questionable decision, followed by a very questionable decision.

Re SRR: You could say that SRR was LaMotta's nemesis. And Greb after a while must have felt the same about Tunney.

Nemesis: Anyone who plays Aaron Rodgers in an NFC Championship game. If an event and not a person can be a nemesis then the game itself is Rodgers'. (Can an 'event' be an "agent"?)

I hadn't realized you were a Canelo nut rider!

[The Old LefHook]

Harry Matthews - Don ****ell

Damn! Now that is an obscure one. You have sent us all to the library (Youtube).

[The Old LefHook]

And by the way, I have no extraordinary respect for GGG. I merely observed that he beat Canelo twice. The fact that Queensbree disagrees, is a huge point in my favor, all must admit.

Canelo is clearly the greater champion by a mile, for he takes on the toughest competition consistently. GGG squalls and waits for big money fights, taking on nobodies to bide his time. I can't respect that. Still, he beat Canelo twice, as well as a man should have to in order to earn a decision. GGG may be a slightly better fighter heads-up, but is a far worse champion.

I keep my own record book where even mildly rotten decisions are thrown in the garbage, which is quite superior to the official record. Walcott defeats Louis in their first fight, GGG whips Canelo twice and Pacman whips Marquez 3 out of 4 times.

If Pac had won the first fight as he rightfully should have, there never would have been a fourth fight with Marquez for the Pino to be KO'd in. Pacquiao's career got a rotten deal by a rotten decision, affecting (I believe) his all time legacy. but only a wee bit.

[The Old LefHook]

I couldn't find any footage of ****ell/Matthews. But 3-0 is definitely a nemesis.

[markusmod]

- - Just the opposite, but maybe you too young to recall the beginning.

After an officially admitted scoring error cost Manny the first fight, the immediate career purse rematch offer to settle the matter turned down by then BALCOless Juan. He chose to fly to Indonesia for peanuts to be humiliated by Chris John.

>>>> 3rd Marquez fight that he needed BALCO Meme Heredia vitamins to replace the pissoir spritzers he trained on vs l'l Floydy and still lost. So, 0-2-1, 0 KO going into the 4th fight still hooked up with BALCO, on the verge of being KOed for the umpteenth time by Manny, a Manny southpaw foot fault leaves him open for BALCO Juan Hail Mary.

Again, reverting to the first fight, BALCO Juan offered a career purse vs Manny in a Mexico City Bullring in front of 100K screaming Mexicans all for Manny.

Nyet, the humiliation would be too much for BALCO Juan who impugned his own legacy with his own frightful decsions...you're welcome

I actually thought Marquez was jobbed in the John fight. Maybe he juiced in fights 3 and 4, maybe not. But I thought he won the second fight - and Bradley easily outboxed the muscular version of Marquez. Even Alvarado gave Marquez some trouble.