What Made Ezzard Charles such a fantastic fighter. From a technical Viewpoint.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - What little we have of Burley is him looking as sorry as the guy he's fighting, Oakland Billy or some such on a few minutes of a sorry clip. What we do know is he was death to promoters, so he musta been a runner/stinker pioneer where he had to go begging hat in hand for a fight.

He said Greb!

IMHO Burley's failure was four fold . . .

Four different managers/promoters . . . No one knew how to market him

His failure to fight in New York (too much West Coast meant little to no NY ink) . . . In a career with 100 fights only two fights in NY, one at the very beginning and one at the very end.

The Second World War . . . Titles were frozen in what would prove his peak years.

His unexciting style created a double negative, could not put asses in the seats and he was a tough fight anyone; a must to avoid, and they did in droves.

P.S. Make that five, at WW he has to play second fiddle to SRR; at MW Holman Williams. In the 1940s there was usually only room for one Black super star per weight class. The color line was gone, but there was a de facto economic driven bias that still left many Black fighters out in the cold.

[The Old LefHook]

It is of course true however that Burley was a bit of a stinker. The ref once stopped a fight between Burley and Holman Williams for lack of action, and sent them to the showers. If Burley had been an exciting fighter, he could have demanded fights and gotten them. Ezzard was able to out-Burley Burley, beating him every time they fought. The easiest fighter for a champ to avoid is a boring one, because the public does not want to see the match either. Not many squawked when Lewis snubbed Stoney's boy.

[QueensburyRules]

Not many squawked when Lewis snubbed Stoney's boy.

Less squawked when Lewie retired, mainly Vitali.

[The Old LefHook]

It's fewer squawked, son. Run along.

[Willow The Wisp]

It is of course true however that Burley was a bit of a stinker. The ref once stopped a fight between Burley and Holman Williams for lack of action, and sent them to the showers. If Burley had been an exciting fighter, he could have demanded fights and gotten them. Ezzard was able to out-Burley Burley, beating him every time they fought. The easiest fighter for a champ to avoid is a boring one, because the public does not want to see the match either. Not many squawked when Lewis snubbed Stoney's boy.

John is such a good guy though. Haaarsh around here.

[The Old LefHook]

Who is John?

[The Old LefHook]

Oh, John Ruiz.

But I was not talking about his personal habits or how he is at a barbecue. He will also beat the hide off 99.99% + of men who think they will punch him in a bar. Professional fighters at world level can handle normal men like they were children.

I don't recall saying anything harsh about Ruiz in this thread. I insinuated he was boring in the ring, a very easy assertion to stand behind.

You want us to speak of boxers as if they were Medal of Honor winners. You are a product of the conditioning expected of one who partakes in the organizational tasks for events and promotions honoring boxers. I can dig it. But here at Battilda's we have true diversity, which is diversity of opinion. And one must protect himself from it at all times.

The straight fact is Ruiz was able to fight some of the toughest boxers who ever lived. Most of us could not do that. Almost all of us could not do it. We would be dead or laid up. But he was from the right mold to be able to compete with great fighters. That alone is a distinction of rarity, which sets him apart from the vast tides of men.

If I knew him (as you apparently do), I would probably become something of a fan too, simply because of this distinction.

And of course we would never say: "John, you were pretty tough all right, but damn you were boring with all that clinching."

He could just say: "Well, it is the way I had to fight to make millions of dollars."

Since it is illegal for him to kick my butt.

[billeau2]

John is such a good guy though. Haaarsh around here.

Johnny was the only fighter in history who had a manager that threw more punches during a fight than he did.

I should clarify.. Stony threw a lot of punches!

[Willow The Wisp]

Oh, John Ruiz.

But I was not talking about his personal habits or how he is at a barbecue. He will also beat the hide off 99.99% + of men who think they will punch him in a bar. Professional fighters at world level can handle normal men like they were children.

I don't recall saying anything harsh about Ruiz in this thread. I insinuated he was boring in the ring, a very easy assertion to stand behind.

You want us to speak of boxers as if they were Medal of Honor winners. You are a product of the conditioning expected of one who partakes in the organizational tasks for events and promotions honoring boxers. I can dig it. But here at Battilda's we have true diversity, which is diversity of opinion. And one must protect himself from it at all times.

The straight fact is Ruiz was able to fight some of the toughest boxers who ever lived. Most of us could not do that. Almost all of us could not do it. We would be dead or laid up. But he was from the right mold to be able to compete with great fighters. That alone is a distinction of rarity, which sets him apart from the vast tides of men.

If I knew him (as you apparently do), I would probably become something of a fan too, simply because of this distinction.

And of course we would never say: "John, you were pretty tough all right, but damn you were boring with all that clinching."

He could just say: "Well, it is the way I had to fight to make millions of dollars."

Since it is illegal for him to kick my butt.

That's a good post. Respectful, truthful. The whole thing. I am friendly with many of them going way back. Good call. Yes, I get hung up some about respectful attitudes towards these guys, much like I do battle veterans, old folks, woman & kids. My empathetic nature. Meh. If it's a fault it's a mild one. But never would I wish to impose those leanings on anyone else. It's the fights, afterall. Not allot of room for compassion and all of thay horse****. Lol

[The Old LefHook]

Johnny was the only fighter in history who had a manager that threw more punches during a fight than he did.

I should clarify.. Stony threw a lot of punches!

Stony was right out of the Burgess Meredith mold from Rocky. Did Duva and Stony ever work opposing corners? There would be your undercard entertainment right there.