What is it with Smokin' Joe and the Trolls?

[billeau2]

Its crazy... what did Joe do? I mean the guy had one punching arm, a bad eye, and still managed to be one of the best... Yet it seems lately that every troll wants to piss on Joe! We have War room with the immortal quote in my sig: "Frazier was an arm puncher." Know we have a new troll talking about Joe with out of space type shiat...

Last week it was how Joe never fought a solid puncher from another member...

My question is... what did Joe do to deserve this?! Did he like to piss in people's corn flakes or something? I mean the guy was a wrecking ball. He fought lots of tough fighters that don't get the name recognition of later guys like Ali... Guys like Ellis who was a phenominal fighter who moved very well... One eyed, one armed Joe found him doe. And Foster was lighter but a murderous puncher.

Sheesh!

[Willow The Wisp]

I've wondered this myself, seeing a glimpse of that revisionist history weirdness during my first week here. To provide a unit of measure, an example to frame the issue....I've had the pleasure of seeing both men fight live, good seats, good boxing-smart people around me to exchange ideas with, on multiple occasions; and though I claim to know dammed little about anything meaningful, I do know this one thing unimpeachably. If 1971 Frazier met 1989 Tyson, if Frazier made out out of the first 4 four rounds, and he probably would; Tyson would have no chance to survive a 15 round distance. Zero chance. Being the Hercules of the 25 - 45 year olds today, would not have saved him from an iron willed machine who would be stealing another chunk of Kid Dynamite's will to live with each passing moment. If anyone here didn't this about Joe Frazier, you don't know Joe Frazier.

[billeau2]

I've wondered this myself, seeing a glimpse of that revisionist history weirdness during my first week here. To provide a unit of measure, an example to frame the issue....I've had the pleasure of seeing both men fight live, good seats, good boxing-smart people around me to exchange ideas with, on multiple occasions; and though I claim to know dammed little about anything meaningful, I do know this one thing unimpeachably. If 1971 Frazier met 1989 Tyson, if Frazier made out out of the first 4 four rounds, and he probably would; Tyson would have no chance to survive a 15 round distance. Zero chance. Being the Hercules of the 25 - 45 year olds today, would not have saved him from an iron willed machine who would be stealing another chunk of Kid Dynamite's will to live with each passing moment. If anyone here didn't this about Joe Frazier, you don't know Joe Frazier.

Heres a hypothesis of sorts: Pressure fighters are sort of a rarity these days... You even have new styles that have resulted... I deliberately avoid using the word "evolved"... like the ambush fighter... Wilder, Haye and Martinez use(d) this strategy... It functions well assuming your opponent cannot apply constant pressure. You have the luxury of keeping a far and wide distance and then launching an attack when it so suites you.

Fans don't know what it is like to have a guy like Frazier constantly on you. Tyson could not take it when Holyfield just pushed back and unbalanced him... How would he take Joe's constant assault? Holly even had a touch of the pressure fighter at his best, but its not the bona fide one sees in Marciano, or Frazier. Dempsey had it in him as well, though for pure pressure fighting Marciano and Frazier were in a class by themselves.

ThemApples gave a glorious description of toughness, and the kind of resolve the older fighters had that people don't see these days and that is another aspect entirely in this revisinist lack of insight. Frazier grew up closer to the way Liston did, as opposed to the way a fighter like Joshua did.

[GhostofDempsey]

Remember when every other thread was a Dempsey bashing thread not too long ago? The history forum is looking more like NSB, and the endless Floyd, Canelo, Manny threads.

[The Old LefHook]

You really want the answer?

The blab generation needs things to troll on.

As far as Joe's AT heavyweight ranking goes, he is in the top half of the heavyweights somewhere.

Modern tardwits like to judge boxers on their athleticism, as if athleticism transcends all other attributes. It is Mayweather's mighty athleticism they confuse with boxing greatness. Joe, by contrast, was a lousy all-around athlete, which tardwits confuse with being a lousy boxer, which just ain't so. I doubt Mickey Walker would have made much of a tennis player.

Back in the 70's ABC Wide World of Sports featured a diverse athletic contest between many famous athletes, Joe Frazier among them. Joe was terrible, and may have earned dead last in his totals. He was terrible at lifting the weights, which must have meant it was not part of his boxing training at all. Of course, he could not sprint worth beans, either, or put the shot. But he could have jogged with any of them, though that was not one of the events. Watching, you felt embarrassed for Joe, even though you realized his performance did not diminish him as a boxer, but actually as a decathlete.

Tardwits have another unconscious bias--they favor an athletic boxer with lots of smack talk on him, which they equate with confidence and trashing their opponents mercilessly before the world. Today, nothing succeeds like an athletic trash talker. And Joe was neither, just a hell of a boxing contest for any heavyweight ever, as long as he was not named Foreman.

[Willow The Wisp]

You really want the answer?

The blab generation needs things to troll on.

As far as Joe's AT heavyweight ranking goes, he is in the top half of the heavyweights somewhere.

Modern tardwits like to judge boxers on their athleticism, as if athleticism transcends all other attributes. It is Mayweather's mighty athleticism they confuse with boxing greatness. Joe, by contrast, was a lousy all-around athlete, which tardwits confuse with being a lousy boxer, which just ain't so. I doubt Mickey Walker would have made much of a tennis player.

Back in the 70's ABC Wide World of Sports featured a diverse athletic contest between many famous athletes, Joe Frazier among them. Joe was terrible, and may have earned dead last in his totals. He was terrible at lifting the weights, which must have meant it was not part of his boxing training at all. Of course, he could not sprint worth beans, either, or put the shot. But he could have jogged with any of them, though that was not one of the events. Watching, you felt embarrassed for Joe, even though you realized his performance did not diminish him as a boxer, but actually as a decathlete.

Tardwits have another unconscious bias--they favor an athletic boxer with lots of smack talk on him, which they equate with confidence and trashing their opponents mercilessly before the world. Today, nothing succeeds like an athletic trash talker. And Joe was neither, just a hell of a boxing contest for any heavyweight ever, as long as he was not named Foreman.

The Superstars competition...Lol. One of the events was swimming. Frazier almost drowned..LOL! So, why not lock Joe Frazier and Mark Spitz in a room to settle the question of who's the better athlete?

[Willow The Wisp]

Heres a hypothesis of sorts: Pressure fighters are sort of a rarity these days... You even have new styles that have resulted... I deliberately avoid using the word "evolved"... like the ambush fighter... Wilder, Haye and Martinez use(d) this strategy... It functions well assuming your opponent cannot apply constant pressure. You have the luxury of keeping a far and wide distance and then launching an attack when it so suites you.

Fans don't know what it is like to have a guy like Frazier constantly on you. Tyson could not take it when Holyfield just pushed back and unbalanced him... How would he take Joe's constant assault? Holly even had a touch of the pressure fighter at his best, but its not the bona fide one sees in Marciano, or Frazier. Dempsey had it in him as well, though for pure pressure fighting Marciano and Frazier were in a class by themselves.

ThemApples gave a glorious description of toughness, and the kind of resolve the older fighters had that people don't see these days and that is another aspect entirely in this revisinist lack of insight. Frazier grew up closer to the way Liston did, as opposed to the way a fighter like Joshua did.

I agree. You've nailed it as far as I'm concerned.

[The Old LefHook]

The Superstars competition...Lol. One of the events was swimming. Frazier almost drowned..LOL! So, why not lock Joe Frazier and Mark Spitz in a room to settle the question of who's the better athlete?

Superstars, that was it. I can't remember who the other competitors were. Was Spitz in there?

[Willow The Wisp]

Superstars, that was it. I can't remember who the other competitors were. Was Spitz in there?

Read all about it Here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supe...can_TV_program)
Note that Mark Gastineau won the whole thing one year. Ever see him fight?
I don't recall if Mark Spitz was ever in it. My use of his name was as an example of what being an allround athlete/fitness fanatic/game player means to being a successful fighter. It is a useful single component, like being tough, brave, strong, explosive, durable, statigic, unflappable, aggressive, committed, scrappy. Lol.

[mrbig1]

Joe was a guy who wiped out the HW division in his prime. I'm old enough to remember Joe winning the gold medal. He fought nothing but contender coming up. With Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis Buster Mathis, and Ali fighting for the title only Joe Fraizer was left standing at the end.