Is or should Greb be an all time top 10 LH?

[JAB5239]

Harry Greb is seen as a top 10 p4p fighter all time as well as a top 10 all time middleweight. Is it time to evaluate his career a little more closely and say he is a top 10 lightheavy? I think so.

With wins over Tunney, Norfolk, Tommy and Mike gibbons, Tommy Loughran, Levinski, Delaney, Rosenbloom, Jack Dillon, Slattery, Wiggins etc. his resume is a who's who in one of the best era's for that division. He not only beat most of these guys multiple times, but plenty of other contenders at 175. He was also ducked by George's Carpentier. I believe it's high time his career at that weight or against guys fighting at that weight should be examined more closely and compared to those accepted by most as top 10 all time lightheavyweights. Can a case be made? If no, why not?

[The Old LefHook]

He is a known dirty fighter. If the ref lets him do as he pleases, (as willing to cheat as he is), he may beat anyone. And the ref probably will, because mythical matchups are generally fought under the customs and rules of the fighter from the older era of the two. Old time refs let Armstrong cheat like a wild man, so we can probably expect them to be similarly lenient towards Greb's sneakier moves. There was nothing furtive about Armstrong shoving people around the ring with his head like a bulldozer, it was quite obvious, but I don't recall that he had a reputation of being warned much. Great fighters who are also expert cheaters and are allowed to ply their nefarious methods can be expected to do well against most top non cheaters.

A man like the foul Pole was simply erratic. There was no real method to his madness, and his cheating was always flagrant, unnecessary and unsettling. In the modern age of digital recording he was far too obvious about it. Both Greb and Armstrong seem to have possessed extraordinary boxing tools in addition to their arsenal of cheats. They should be expected to do well against modern opposition at the appropriate weights. Look what a cheater like Andre Ward was able to accomplish, though of course he was an extraordinary fighter, as well, who understood subtle cheating, belt line shots, etc.

Furthermore, all rough fighting is not cheating. The masters mix the borderline abuses in with the occasional flagrant foul which makes them all look like accidents, or at least that is the impression striven for.

The most accomplished cheater today seems to be Tyson Fury. He is frequently up to something illegal. He rubs the open glove often into opponents' faces. Like the others, he has a lot of abilities in addition to his cheating skills. The best contemporary ring general, as well as the top cheater.

[Rockybigblower]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Harry Greb never existed. He's a figment of peoples imagination.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Aside from Greb being IBRO #1 middle, there's this

IBRO ALL-TIME RATINGS
December 31, 2019
Light-Heavyweight Results
1. Ezzard Charles (586)
2. Archie Moore (538)
3. Gene Tunney (495)
4. Sam Langford (468)
5. Bob Foster (451)
6. Mike Spinks (434)
7. Tommy Loughran (403)
8. Billy Conn (371)
9. Harry Greb (325)
10. Roy Jones Jr. (258)

[The Old LefHook]

It depends on the criteria of the list. If it is who beats whom, then Archie Moore would surely not be as high as #2, would he? But for overall legacy, one could easily build a case for Moore.

[JAB5239]

- -Aside from Greb being IBRO #1 middle, there's this

IBRO ALL-TIME RATINGS
December 31, 2019
Light-Heavyweight Results
1. Ezzard Charles (586)
2. Archie Moore (538)
3. Gene Tunney (495)
4. Sam Langford (468)
5. Bob Foster (451)
6. Mike Spinks (434)
7. Tommy Loughran (403)
8. Billy Conn (371)
9. Harry Greb (325)
10. Roy Jones Jr. (258)

Most lists I see, especially from fans, don't rate Greb at lightheavy. And since when did you start using the IBRO rankings?

[QueensburyRules]

Most lists I see, especially from fans, don't rate Greb at lightheavy. And since when did you start using the IBRO rankings?

- -I've always used IBRO as a discussion point, but then again maybe U in U developing years weren't around to know any better.

[JAB5239]

- -I've always used IBRO as a discussion point, but then again maybe U in U developing years weren't around to know any better.

Unless it involves Larry Holmes being rated 4th all time, right?

[billeau2]

Didn't Grebb beat Tunney at middle weight? Either way... I look at Greb like I do Tunney, Moorer, Toney...fighters that don't really have a division, but when we say they are competing as a possible GOAT we have to pick a division... With Tunney thats easier, (light heavy) But with Grebb, kind of tough. He definitely belongs at both rankings.

[billeau2]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Harry Greb never existed. He's a figment of peoples imagination.

You just wait bub! Some woke gender neutral in Pittsburgh, will talk about her grand mother who spoke of this nice German fellow, used to box... even gave her an old tape of some of his fights... then pull out an old reel the size of Godzilla's pcker... It will be preserved perfectly on account of being stored next to the old canning jars and all... and will have at least 3 of the Pittsburgh Windmill's fights. Grandma will have told her daughter "that silly boy, told me to hold on to them because they might be worth something, can you imagine?"