Armstrong: Middleweight champion?

[JAB5239]

If Henry Armstrong had beaten Ceferino Garcia in 1940 would he be considered a 4 division champion or would there be an asterisk as only the California state athletic commission saw this as a world championship?

[QueensburyRules]

- -The asterisk already done been stuck to the point of U dunce noggin fer asking such a nonsensical question, however...

We know if Tubsy Lar had beat Brian Neilson fer the IPO belt(j/k) he woulda proclaimed his dummyness as the world champ....

[Willie Pep 229]

If Henry Armstrong had beaten Ceferino Garcia in 1940 would he be considered a 4 division champion or would there be an asterisk as only the California state athletic commission saw this as a world championship?

Asterisk - California had no argument to make that a title fight but did have cause, bigger gate more money.

Also Garcia was a natural WW; had lost a 15 round UD to Armstrong for the WW title two years earlier; also he appeared for the supposed MW fight in 1940 at only 153 pounds.

Also set for only ten rounds when at that time almost all title fights were schedule for 15.

Not even close to being a MW title fight.

But had he won that night you know it would be boxing legend today anyway.

DIRGRESSION: In Baseball, just mention the famous (actually infamous) final line of "Baseball's Sad Lexicon" (Franlkin Pierce Admas) - "From Tinker to Evers, to Chance," the double play combination from the early Cubies (1910), and some fan will quickly say "The greatest double play combination in the history of baseball."

But they weren't, they were never better than in the middle of the pack, NEVER lead the league in DPs turned. But it was a real popular poem in Chicago.

Plus they only played together for five seasons (Tinker and Evers kept trading punches in the locker room so the Cubs traded Tinker.)

If Hammering Hank wins that fight, Larry Merchant would find cause to mention the four titles every fight. We like legendary things even if they never existed.

You know it wasn't 100 degrees plus in Havana in 1915 we just want it be.

P.S. Moral of the story - never take a quote at face value, it's probably just some old guy slinging shlt.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

There would definitely be an asterisk as the Californian title is more comparable to an IBO title in the modern era, it’s a respected belt but it’s not a bonafide world title.

Garcia was the reigning NYSAC World Champion at the time though and in those days it was more about the man who beat the man, so I think it would be fair to categorise Armstrong as a 4 weight world champion had he got the victory. By most accounts Armstrong was badly robbed in that fight too.

[QueensburyRules]

DIRGRESSION: In Baseball, just mention the famous (actually infamous) final line of "Baseball's Sad Lexicon" (Franlkin Pierce Admas) - "From Tinker to Evers, to Chance," the double play combination from the early Cubies (1910), and some fan will quickly say "The greatest double play combination in the history of baseball."

But they weren't, they were never better than in the middle of the pack, NEVER lead the league in DPs turned. But it was a real popular poem in Chicago.

Plus they only played together for five seasons (Tinker and Evers kept trading punches in the locker room so the Cubs traded Tinker.)

If Hammering Hank wins that fight, Larry Merchant would find cause to mention the four titles every fight. We like legendary things even if they never existed.

You know it wasn't 100 degrees plus in Havana in 1915 we just want it be.

- -Luv me old school baseball digressions.

The poem from the point of view of the NY Giants in the first decade of MLB.

Frank Chance preceded Tinker and Evers who was a banty brawler with a little man's Napoleon complex leading with his jutting anvil of a jaw. Chance is one of the top Run Production % producer first basemen in history who still holds the Cub record for stolen bases, 400. Also holds the franchise record winning % of .677 as Mgr that is likely the all time franchise record in all of baseball bolstered by 4 pennants and 2 WS as The Dominant NL team of the first decade. His career and life took a sudden downturn when a fastball cracked his skull. The Cubs owner in charge, Charles Murphy made to the hospital after emergency surgery to save his life when he was barely conscious to axe him on the spot. Evers got the job and soon the axe as he had the club in an uproar with Tinker quitting. The best NL team in history now in shambles, the owners axed Murphy, so it took 113 years later to exorcise that curse. Evers was also one of the first MLB stars to play with the nascent black Chicago club in the off season to bolster ticket sales.

Full circle back to boxing, Frank Chance main preoccupation in the off season was prizefighting apparently under an assumed name, or perhaps with an Olympic type Cali club where Corbett and Jeffries cut their teeth. Corbett and JL spoke very highly of him as a boxer...who knew?

[Willie Pep 229]

- -Luv me old school baseball digressions.

The poem from the point of view of the NY Giants in the first decade of MLB.

Frank Chance preceded Tinker and Evers who was a banty brawler with a little man's Napoleon complex leading with his jutting anvil of a jaw. Chance is one of the top Run Production % producer first basemen in history who still holds the Cub record for stolen bases, 400. Also holds the franchise record winning % of .677 as Mgr that is likely the all time franchise record in all of baseball bolstered by 4 pennants and 2 WS as The Dominant NL team of the first decade. His career and life took a sudden downturn when a fastball cracked his skull. The Cubs owner in charge, Charles Murphy made to the hospital after emergency surgery to save his life when he was barely conscious to axe him on the spot. Evers got the job and soon the axe as he had the club in an uproar with Tinker quitting. The best NL team in history now in shambles, the owners axed Murphy, so it took 113 years later to exorcise that curse. Evers was also one of the first MLB stars to play with the nascent black Chicago club in the off season to bolster ticket sales.

Full circle back to boxing, Frank Chance main preoccupation in the off season was prizefighting apparently under an assumed name, or perhaps with an Olympic type Cali club where Corbett and Jeffries cut their teeth. Corbett and JL spoke very highly of him as a boxer...who knew?

Evers was also the antagonist for Merkle's Bonner - that's why were cursed LOL - it was Evers' who broke the gentleman's agreement.

[markusmod]

Evers was also the antagonist for Merkle's Bonner - that's why were cursed LOL - it was Evers' who broke the gentleman's agreement.

Yes, agreed. LOL!

[Ben Bolt]

There would definitely be an asterisk as the Californian title is more comparable to an IBO title in the modern era

As the fights we really want to see rarely happens in these days, I hope we’ll realize that “the big four’s” belts are generally comparable with the ones of the IBO.
Very few of today's champs live up to the true meaning of being a World champion.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

As the fights we really want to see rarely happens in these days, I hope we’ll realize that “the big four’s” belts are generally comparable with the ones of the IBO.
Very few of today's champs live up to the true meaning of being a World champion.

I hate all the ABC’s personally. All I care about is who beats who. For example if Spence and Crawford fought for all four belts or no belts at all, it would make little difference to me.

[billeau2]

I hate all the ABC’s personally. All I care about is who beats who. For example if Spence and Crawford fought for all four belts or no belts at all, it would make little difference to me.

It flumuxes me that some others often tout alphabet soup, and belts without any thought that they are relative... It all comes down to who beats who. Queenie would tout Zelenoff as legit because he has a homemade belt he touts around...