Fights Johnson never made

[travestyny]

Johnson on several occasions admitted that Langford was too much for him. High McIntosh cited a couple of times Johnson confided in him he wasn't going to fight Langford.

"Say, Mister Mac, You're only wasting your time talking to me. I don't want to fight that little smoke. He's got a chance against anyone in the world. I'm the first black champion and I'm going to be the last". ~ Jack Johnson

When Johnson "agreed" to fight Langford and McVey in Australia for a guaranteed $50K, he had no intention of carrying out that promise. He then moved the goal post yet again and insisted McIntosh had to forfeit $15k in the U.S. instead of Australia. This was typical of Johnson, always coming up with excuses to avoid Langford and other fighters he didn't want to fight.

Why would the forfeit be posted in Australia? McIntosh was aware that the forfeits should have been posted with Al Tearney, Johnson's manager, before the contract was drawn up. The same guy who received the forfeits for the Flynn fight. He had a problem with this at first but claimed it would be adjusted.

6VIJBD.png

Forfeits weren't posted when Johnson was bagged on the Mann Act. Ho hum...

[travestyny]

Jack Johnson:

"I'd fight a bear for $30K"

Reporter:

"Will you fight Sam Langford?"

Jack Johnson:

"He ain't no bear, he's a wildcat!"

Fort Wayne Sentinel, 6 Jun 1911

I think that's pretty funny. But not as funny as this one. From "Unforgivable Blackness":

QbPONj.png

Damn. You telling me the reporters got the joke? Who are they to assume this was a joke



By the way, when are you going to prove that those 3 acceptances didn't happen? Or is it just enough for you to assume he wasn't going to fight to fit your agenda?

[GhostofDempsey]

Countless examples of not only opponents he ducked but testimonies of how many of them were better. From fighters, promoters, managers, press, etc. But again, certain parties insist those fighters are “liars”.

[travestyny]

Countless examples of not only opponents he ducked but testimonies of how many of them were better. From fighters, promoters, managers, press, etc. But again, certain parties insist those fighters are “liars”.

Still waiting for you to prove those three acceptances never happened, buddy. Waitingggggggg.....

[Willie Pep 229]

No? Do you want the full page. I'm not trying to give away too much of Clay's work, but have at it.

Johnson clearly says he will stay in the town for several days and would match the amount anytime in that time frame.

Here you go. Refer to the penultimate paragraph.

hgm4xN.png

If that is the agreement that they came to, that is the agreement that they came to. I don't see the issue.


As for Paris, feel free to show the offers.

Ok so he gave him "several" daysto pull one half a million out his ass. The man was fighting to eat.

Go ahead and say it out loud - "Giving Sam Langford one week to come up with that kind of money or thee is no deal" - is a legit offer. Go ahead say that out loud.

Yes, why were there no deals in Paris? McKetrick was connected to both Jeannette and Johnson. So why no fight ?

I am hard pressed to believe that a JJ- Moran fight could sell in Paris but that a Jeannette fight wouldn't have.

McKetrick must have bsen in regular contact with both fighters and you know one of them really wanted the fight.

You are correct thete were no public offers made. First blush suggests JJ shut down the possibility with McKetrick, but I guess we will never know.

[GhostofDempsey]

Ok so he gave him "several" daysto pull one half a million out his ass. The man was fighting to eat.

Go ahead and say it out loud - "Giving Sam Langford one week to come up with that kind of money or thee is no deal" - is a legit offer. Go ahead say that out loud.

Yes, why were there no deals in Paris? McKetrick was connected to both Jeannette and Johnson. So why no fight ?

I am hard pressed to believe that a JJ- Moran fight could sell in Paris but that a Jeannette fight wouldn't have.

McKetrick must have bsen in regular contact with both fighters and you know one of them really wanted the fight.

You are correct thete were no public offers made. First blush suggests JJ shut down the possibility with McKetrick, but I guess we will never know.

This was all part of Johnson’s ruse to make the public think he would really be willing to fight while he set unrealistic conditions. There are countless examples abound that he never made a real, or serious offer to accept a fight with any of them for the title.

Funny he now wants to quote Moyle’s book. A year or more ago when I quoted that very book and others he dismissed the source completely, now he wants to use it, paraphrased of course.

[travestyny]

Ok so he gave him "several" daysto pull one half a million out his ass. The man was fighting to eat.

Go ahead and say it out loud - "Giving Sam Langford ine week to come up with that kind of money or thete is no deal" i- s a legit offer. Go ahead say that out loud.

Yes, why were there no deals in Paris? McKetrick was connected to both Jeannette and Johnson. So why no fight ?

I am hard pressed to believe that a JJ- Moran fight could sell in Paris but that a Jeannette fight wouldn't have.

McKetrick must have bsen in regular contact with both fighters and you know one of them really wanted the fight.

You are correct thete were no public offers made. First blush suggests JJ shut down the possibility with McKetrick, but I guess we will never know.

I'm going to go ahead and say out loud that if at the end of that negotiation Sam Langford agreed to the terms, then he agreed to the terms.


It's called being a man of your word. They negotiated, came to an agreement, shook on it, and even took photos together at the end. If he couldn't live up to the agreement, he shouldn't have agreed . That's how it works. You can't blame Jack Johnson for that. It's not like he pulled a fast one on Sam and Joe Woodman. They were both there and demanding that Johnson come up with the money immediately after they post it as well.


As for Paris, I can't help you brotha. I can't just make up things out of the blue. I can only go by what we have. Perhaps it was nothing more than as much as they would have drawn in Paris, a white fighter would have drawn more....? I really don't know. I'll tell you what though. I wish he would have fought these guys as much as all of you do. I really do. But to say that he never offered them fights for the championship is provably false.

[travestyny]

This was all part of Johnson’s ruse to make the public think he would really be willing to fight while he set unrealistic conditions. There are countless examples abound that he never made a real, or serious offer to accept a fight with any of them for the title.

Funny he now wants to quote Moyle’s book. A year or more ago when I quoted that very book and others he dismissed the source completely, now he wants to use it, paraphrased of course.

I don't remember dismissing any source completely, but if that's the case, I hope you are not dismissing the book. I have a whole bevy of articles that tell that same exact story. I just think Clay puts together that story quite well.

But oh the hypocrisy. You are suddenly a big fan of "anonymous newspapers." I guess we've come to some common ground, huh?

So then we both agree that Jack Johnson did agree to fight Langford and Langford agreed to the terms, but just couldn't come up with the money? I'm happy we finally can put this one to bed now. Thanks, Clay.

[GhostofDempsey]

Interview with Joe Jeannette, The Ring, Sep 1958:

"I boxed him nine times (Johnson) and we could have made it nine more times with nobody getting hurt. Jack was afraid of Langford though. He beat Sam once, when Sam was only a Middleweight, but he wouldn't have anything to do with him when Sam got bigger and better."

Interview with Joe Jeannette, Boxing Illustrated, Nov 1958:

Same would have been champion anytime Johnson had given him a fight. And Johnson knew it better than anybody. Man! How that baby could hit, nobody else could hit like that. Well maybe Joe Louis could, but don't forget that Sam only weighed about 160."

Charley Cutler, a one-time sparring partner of Jack Johnson and a man who had boxed with Sam a number of times, offered his opinion that Sam was the greatest HW in the ring. "He is the hardest hitter and, in my opinion would defeat the champion (Johnson) in a finish fight."

[travestyny]

Interview with Joe Jeannette, The Ring, Sep 1958:

"I boxed him nine times (Johnson) and we could have made it nine more times with nobody getting hurt. Jack was afraid of Langford though. He beat Sam once, when Sam was only a Middleweight, but he wouldn't have anything to do with him when Sam got bigger and better."

Interview with Joe Jeannette, Boxing Illustrated, Nov 1958:

Same would have been champion anytime Johnson had given him a fight. And Johnson knew it better than anybody. Man! How that baby could hit, nobody else could hit like that. Well maybe Joe Louis could, but don't forget that Sam only weighed about 160."

Charley Cutler, a one-time sparring partner of Jack Johnson and a man who had boxed with Sam a number of times, offered his opinion that Sam was the greatest HW in the ring. "He is the hardest hitter and, in my opinion would defeat the champion (Johnson) in a finish fight."

Well then it's too bad McIntosh pulled the offer in one instance, Sam left the country in another instance, and Sam wasn't able to live up to his end of the bargain in another instance. He should have been Champion of the world


We already had this debate in another thread. Most had Jack Johnson winning this match. In fact, I don't think anyone chose Sam. Maybe the biased posters who refuse to admit that he accepted matches with these guys. But otherwise, I remember it being a landslide in JJohnson's favor.


But hey, give that man JJohnson some credit for trying. There were some boxers out there who didn't even make an honest attempt to fight their top contender. You know what I mean? Broke lucrative contracts and everything. So uncalled for.